Anyone for Lugars?

[Dez H]

Greetings
I know its kinda off topic, no one around here ever seems to talk about firearms so I thought I would share something and hopefully get the ball rolling a bit. Not sure if this even should be in here or in the Imperial section. Presented here is a 1917 Lugar P 08, all matching numbers, has been reblued at some stage, you can tell as some parts on the lower section of the action are covered up when they should not be. Made my DMW fine piece with grips in fair condition.

[Dez H]

[Matt Weber]

Nice looking piece! Do you have a black widow luger?

If you go to the suggestion forum. I put in a poll on having a firearms forum. Please go there, and vote! Hopefully we can get one then! I'm a firearms collector as well. Keep in touch!

Matt

[Matt Weber]

Hench the name, "Black Widow Luger!"

They are usually "byf 42." I've only seen a few, and they are highly faked, but they look totally cool!

Matt

[Skip Pickett]

Black Widow? Why not?

I saw where there was a post stating there was no such thing as a "black widow" Luger...Matt was right, there was...and it was a "byf" (Mauser) 42 code as he said. I've owned one, and they are like any other luger, except the grips. They were issued with black plastic grips. They had the later style of bluing that covered all the small parts, (trigger, safty lever, ect.) making the whole thing, grips and all "black". At one time there was a school of thought that they went to the SS, but that has been pretty much determined as incorrect. I'm pretty certain the Germans did not call them "black widows", and I don't know where that name came from....collectors I guess.

[Rene Chavez]

I love to have a Luger.....

I've seen in Manions lots of Lugers and Walter P-38s for sale. Not sure if there all good or not.

What is the average price for a nice Luger with 90% original blue and all matching serial numbers, I've seen some in Manions starting at 750?

Rene

[Dez H]

I will try and get the camera again from work and post some pictures of my other Lugar’s. Particularly nice one I own is a 1917 artillery model. A Long barrel with silver ornate finish on the sides. Complete with 7 ½” barrel. Price? Well that depends on what you want and how much you are going to pay here in Australia if you want to get top end you can pay up to $2500 for a mint artillery with 25 round clip, stock, and the shoulder attachment piece. Personally I wouldn’t pay so much for one. For the one pictured I payed $650. All it really needs is a nice holster maybe $150 and she would be complete. Average pieces can be picked up for as low as $450, maybe $750 for a really nice one. Original finish is of course worth more. Makers marks. Matching numbers, good barrel, no dings or dents. All these add or reduce the price. Just depends what you want the piece for. Collecting or target shooting. All the ‘original’ ones I seen/owned have been matching numbers. It is usually only the ones that sporters have shot the hell out of that have been modified to buggery. To work out the American price just divide by half.


Dez

[mott5ranch]

Manion's, Gun Digest, Firearms Etc. all have nice examples of Lugars. Remember that Lugars were licensed to be produced all over the world and they were.

Manion's gun expert only deals in guns (firearms). Gun Digest, Firearms and many MANY more are also well versed in firearms. Before one buys they need to be specific and ask questions. Check out your dealer as one may do here. The gun guys are just as picky and specific.

Is this a period piece? Where was it manufactured? Is it a military issue piece? And most important, (since the Europeans are making them useless inert pieces of bull****)....does it still fire?

Greg passed on a mint WW1 piece for a few grand he is still dreaming about. They are out there because they were so massed produced. $750 for a rough one is average. I got my old worn out Lugar for $400 five years ago. $2500 for a WW1 naval artillary piece (long ass barrel) is the normal price.

I am all for a WWII firearms thread. Who knows, maybe we will get one. some day. Carl has hit a few homeruns on his guns.

Good luck hunting. You will find one, they are out there.

[Dez H]

This particular Lugar, is dated 1917, all matching numbers clip is not serial numbered so I presume military issue. Fires a great grouping at 50 feet. Stamped DWM (The Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken.) DWM are renowned for their high quality in production and control. DWM owned the original Lugar patents and produced the firearm until the manufacturing capability was transferred to its subsidiary firm Mauser in 1930. As stated by mott5ranch Lugar’s have been produced everywhere, from Mexico, Russia and Brazil. Fakes are out there, and they are increasingly getting better and better.



Dez

[Frank Heukemes]

Gentlemen, there might be a "black widow" Luger, but certainly there is no "Lugar". Don´t make Herr Luger turn in his grave, it is not nice

Cheers, Frank

[Matt Weber]

Rene,

Dez is right. It all depends on what you want, what you plan to do with the Luger, and what you are willing to spend. If you just want a simple luger to shoot, you can get an import re-worked one for about $350-$425. You can find these at shows, or in "gun list." Lugers where made for such a long time, and have so many variants, that your search could be limitless! Here are examples of just some of the rarer lugers out there:

1. US test lugers- these are called the "American Eagle" luger, and will have a US eagle on the top of the reciever. These are very high priced now, and tough to find.
2. Swiss lugers- the Swiss were the first to adapt the luger for military service, and thier guns will have a Swiss cross on the reciever, and the toggle will be smoothly indented. (not checkered grips like the German ones!) These are highly faked now, and are very expensive!
3. Deaths' Head luger- some collectors belive that these are SS lugers, but actually are from WWI. They will have a deaths' head on the reciever that looks simular to the WWII Totenkopf. These are highly faked, and I have only seen two real ones in my entire life!
4. Artillery lugers- these are long barrel lugers that were originally made for artillery units in WWI. These will be marked by DWM. Some come with a leather holster, and others will have a stock/holster made of wood, that is really cool! Also, another cool accesory is the 32 round snail magazine (if you can find one!) If you look for an artillery luger, look for ones dated 1917 and look for one that is unit marked on the gripstrap (worth much more!).
5. Simpson luger- Simpson took over production of the luger during the inter war years. Simpson lugers are of very high quality, and are high priced items! They are usually marked on the toggle "Simpson & Sohn".
6. G-date, and K-date lugers- just like the Kar98k, the Germans began making lugers in 1934 and 1935. Instead of putting the dates on them they used the codes K for 1934 and G for 1935. These were made by the Mauser firm, and will have thier make code marked on the top of the reciever as follows: "S/42K" or "S/42G". These are very rare, and very pricey! You can find ones that have been re-worked by the E. Germans, and import marked for less $ though.
7. Black Widow luger- as stated earlier, the black widow luger was made in the final year of luger production, and was made by the Mauser firm. These will be marked, "byf 42". They will look completely black! Grips, trigger, magazine, everything will be black finished! Be carefull, these are highly faked! The Russians made black plastic grips for the lugers that they captured after the war, and made them by the truck load! My advise is this: if the grips look too good, then they probably are!
8. The .45 cal Luger!- I saved this one for last! This is called the $1,000,000.00 Luger! There is only one in the entire world. DWM made two .45 cal lugers for the US army testing. The first one was used in the trials, and basically they shot the piss out of it, until it was wore out! The second one is still around. I believe a collector in CA brought it a few year ago for over $950,000!!!!! Those who have had the priveledge to shoot it, say that it is simply beautiful, and is dead on target!!

There are of course cheaper ones to get. Look for a early WWII example, like a 1938 or 1939. These will be marked with Mausers' early code "42" on the toggle link, and above the chamber will have the dates such as "1939". Hope this helps you out, and good luck!

Matt

[Rick Research]

Dez: I thought your "Wise And Benevolent" National Gubamint had BANNED AND CONFISCATED AND DESTROYED all handguns a couple of years back?

MY "WAB" State Gubamint is planning on the same thing next year. Ironic, since the American Revolution was sparked here not by taxes, tea, or political theories, but when the Capitol decided it didn't want armed farmers. Plus ça change....

[Matt Weber]

C Evans,

That's a dirty shame about your black widow luger! I would have gladly taken it! Why was the cover so hard to put back on? I never had a problem with one at all?! I don't really collect lugers, but I do collect WWII German handguns, and have a few in my hands over the years. I would like to get a black widow though. I just think they look cool!
Right now, I just have a shooter. Its a 1940 "42" coded, all matching, but imported, and some of the smaller parts have been replaced. Nice gun though, and it shoots dead on!!

Matt

[Dez H]

Rick;
Back in 1996 we had the big “gun grab” everyone had to turn in their vicious firearms. Over 640,000 firearms were turned in. Automatics, semi autos, handguns. The best we can do here is if you are a primary producer and have population control issues is to be able to obtain a 10 shot semi auto. Everything has to be registered under the new categories and obtain a firearms license. Self defence is not one of these, for example you can own a Luger for sporting, target shooting or for collecting and that’s all. I could post the exact details of all of these but I am sure as it does to me, it would bore you to death. The amount of information to wade though and red tape involved in all of this is mind boggling. Now the civil liberaltarians and the snivelling do gooders are after the semi auto handguns of the law-abiding citizens. Since 1996 crimes involving firearms here in Australia have gone up. Not down as some would have you believe. In the state of Victoria alone assault and crimes involving guns has risen by 44% I do not have all the facts and figures at hand, but they are simply alarming. Surprise surprise, as in the UK when ALL handguns were banned. Seems to be that it is not after all the law abiding citizens who are committing these acts, but the unregistered folks. There is a very good paper written on the subject in titled "More guns means less crime." Switzerland I believe or is it Sweden, has the highest ratio of guns per head of population yet the lowest crime rate. All is not good in the land of the free and easy ether I hear Rick, proposed ‘anti terrorist’ laws would make 50 cals in the states illegal to possess. This also goes with all ex military equipment, everything from sleeping tents to rifles to field equipment. The correct buzzword for you Americans I believe is “infringing on your second amendment rights.” Well don’t get me started on this subject, I will never stop.



Cheers

[JaimeH]

A couple of years ago the NRA ran some info-mercials about Australia's gun laws. It was scary! I'm sure they were ignored by the general public. Here in the states gun owners are portrayed by the media as red necked ultra conservative wackos. Any time a crime is commited it's called a "hand gun crime" (as if it's the gun that commited the crime).