Browning 9mm hi-power history?

[tommyboy]

hey all;

I have a browning 9mm made during german occupucy. Ive been told that this pistol was issued to german naval officers? Iis this true? All the serial num. match and is in good working order. Does anyone have anything else they can tell me about this gun...?! it does have the german eagle swas. on the side.



thanks in advanced!!!!


tommy

[sneakerd]

There's no way to tell what branch that pistol was issued to. Many of the Hi-Powers were actually issued to the SS early in the war, they liked the reliability of the pistol and the high mag capacity. Earlier ones have a tangent rear sight, later ones fixed. Earlier ones have a better finish, later ones more crude
It should be waffen-ampted on the frame, slide and barrel. THe correct mag ahould be waffen-ampted 140, I believe. Those mags are worth about $250 all by themselves, so it's quite a bonus if you have a marked mag. I like 'em, don't have one yet!

[Dick Pumphrey]

FN Model 1935

Hi Tommy,
I think that the majority of these pistols were issued to the Heer. The acceptance proofs should be either: WaA103, WaA140 or WaA613 on the left side of the slide. There were several variations, depending on manufacture date, slotted w/tangent sight, unslotted w/tangent sight and fixed sight. I think that the fixed sight pistol is by far the most common. All in all a very nice pistol and fun to shoot. Congratulations on a nice find. Enjoy.
Regards,
Dick

[sneakerd]

According to Whittington, Vol 2, "The large magazine capacity resulted in the weapon being issued to troops frequently engaged in heavy ground combat."
(This would of course include Heer!). "Films and photographs of the period indicate that large quantities (if not all) of the pistols were issued to the Waffen-SS and paratroops of the Heer & Luftwaffe."

[tommyboy]

browning 9 mm

thanks for the info.. and yes its a great pistol to shoot!! It was handed down to me by my grandfather. He aquired it during the war. He also had a( steir 25 ) flip barrel I will check the mag. for markings and get back with yall on what i find

thanks for the help

Tommy

[phild]

According to Whittington, Vol 2, "The large magazine capacity resulted in the weapon being issued to troops frequently engaged in heavy ground combat."
(This would of course include Heer!). "Films and photographs of the period indicate that large quantities (if not all) of the pistols were issued to the Waffen-SS and paratroops of the Heer & Luftwaffe."

I agree with the above statements. I can also add that many many HPs were made and issued with mags that were NOT WAa marked. For sure many in the lower "a" block (maybe tens of thousands) were not issued with WAa marked mags.

If one knows his stuff the period Nazi issued mags can be descerned regardless of bearing a WAa mark or not. Many HPs have been "helped" by collectors by having WAa mags added when they were never issued with these to begin with.

[sneakerd]

I think I'm going to disagree with with phild on the mag topic. IMHO, an original waffen-ampted (inspected) pistol would have been issued with a waffen-ampted mag. Given the choice, I would always take a pistol with a marked mag over an unmarked mag, depending on the premium being charged. Unmarked mags can be argued and disputed, an original mag marked WaA140, assuming original and not fake markings, cannot. My point still stands that it a nice bonus if Tommyboy's Hi-Power has a WaA140 mag.

[sneakerd]

Excuse please, clarification, not arguing phild's point about the early A block and maybe a few more. The earliest accepted and issued Belgian HPs, slotted and tangent sighted, certainly likely had many cases of Belgian-made, but not German-proofed mags. I guess I just think that a WaA marked mag is a little more important than he does. Personal taste or being to picky? Oh well.

[tommyboy]

hi-power 9

Fellows i will check today when i get home and see about those markings!! Will let yall know tomorrow forsure. As a foot note about who these were issued to, ive spoken to an historian that works for browning. He said that it was to his understanding that some of these were issued to naval personel. He also went on to say that the early 9mm were far better quality than the later ones. Reason being that the factory workers started sabatoging them so they would miss fire in the officers hand and either wound or kill them. Food for thought?????



tommy

[phild]

Excuse please, clarification, not arguing phild's point about the early A block and maybe a few more. The earliest accepted and issued Belgian HPs, slotted and tangent sighted, certainly likely had many cases of Belgian-made, but not German-proofed mags. I guess I just think that a WaA marked mag is a little more important than he does. Personal taste or being to picky? Oh well.

Collectors who have collected data on thousands of Nazi era HPs have found (so I have been told by one of them) that there are blocks of Nazi HPs issued without WAa mags well into the mid war period (this would have been the lower A block for example).

I have not inspected hundreds of bring back HPs myself to really say for sure, but I do know for a fact that a considerable number of NAZI made and issued with the gun HP mags were not WAa marked. I will also say that the same is true for the Radoms.

This may not sound like the logical assumption to some collectors, but I will state it as a fact that anyone can bet on.

On both Radoms and HPs it is pretty easy to tell the Nazi era mags even if there is no WAa....they are distinctive and the construction on the post war HP mags were completly changed later.

There are also fake WAa stamps being added to post war HP mags.

IMO the WAa means nothing by itself. The mag should be the corect one for the gun somtimes that means a WaA mag and sometimes not.

[dag001]

Not trying to start a pi$$ing match here, but I must agree with phild. My personal experience coincides with what the experts say. I have owned 4 unmolested vet-acquired 640(b)'s - 1 unslotted tangent and 3 fixed sight guns (2 wooden gripped and 1 bakelite). Although all of them had wartime manufactured magazines, none had waffenamts. A mag w/waffenamt is cool, but not a deal breaker if absent. JMHO

[james m]

I think some of you might enjoy seeing this example:
Jim

[james m]

The pistol: Late War and notice the blueing wear on the front grip strap.
Jim

[james m]

The Waffenamt and an example of late war tooling. Boy I wish this one could talk:
Jim

[james m]

Stamp on the back of the holster:
Jim