question for the luger experts

[Ben R]

here is a question that might start another "chromed pistol" controversy

I recently acquired some lugers and one of them is unusual so I thought I would get a few more opinions on it. it is a 1940 oberndorf with a very small enamel shield attached on the sideplate; the shield is the emblem of the 20th ss division. the collectors I showed it to are divided on the authenticity issue- honestly most of them just dont know. neither do I.
I own a repro enameled "wiking" ring but the enamel shield on the luger looks much older, smaller and more antique than the shiny repro, also the pistol matches and is a unstamped bringback, so why would anybody mess with it. and I bought it for the regular bluebook price - so it wont hurt me either way.
is it possibly a real deal or is it another fake?
thanks,
Ben

[GerColctor]

Ben R

It was in all probability the pin was added by the GI who "captured" the Luger. It was not put there by the former owner. By attaching the pin to this weapon it suddenly becomes SS equipment. There is no record of the SS inventory of issued Lugers, which if miliary proofed went from Mauser to the Army, with some far smaller numbers going to the Luftwaffe and the police. Not that the SS didn't have some.

Because the pin is SS, some folks who "want to believe" might pay you more for the Luger if offered for sale. There is a mystique that always surrounds the SS.

You will often see Nazi pins attached to Luger holsters, etc, these are all post capture "improvements". This was a fairly common practice by the GIs.

What many Americans have a problem with, is understanding that to the German military man a Luger was just another weapon. We are the ones that are facinated by it. The GIs spent their limited money dressing up these pistols by having them nickle or chrome plated, adding ivory or clear grip panels, having them engraved, etc. Much of it was done in Europe, but upon their return to the US some guys had this work done here.

Stories abound concerning these "tricked" out Lugers as being captured from high ranking military, SS or political officers. People are going to believe what they want to believe, wheather the story comes from a vet selling the item, his estate or from a family member who brought it home. To these folks, facts will never be allowed to ruin the fable.
Joe

[MikeP]

Very good response.
Covers it nicely.
Lots of grips and holsters will have various badges or insignis applied.

[phild]

My response will be a little different.

I've never heard of a 20thSS Div. enamel pin. I would suspect that if it is original that it is worth about as much a the Luger itself.

Authenicating the pin could be very problematic, but you could start by posting close up photos to the SS board on this forum.

If the pin is period it could be anyone's guess who stuck it on the grip (I assume that is the location and not the sideplate).

As fo the W-SS using Lugers, I see based on the period photos perhaps a higher % of Lugers being carried by the W-SS than any other single service. They certainly carried most other types of pistols as well, but the Luger was as close to a standard with the W-SS as you will find with any of the other services.

OKW directed the Army on how to allot the weapons although I do agree the the Army was responsible for the contracts the distribution was very much a political and OKW involved decision.

[Ben R]

thanks for the info guys, I'm going to post it on GB as a probable post war GI addition. On one hand, it made me wonder because the 20th fought on the eastern front, they probably had no contact with the western allies, and alot of them were released to go home prior to the soviets crossing the estonian frontier (to become the forest brothers). so how a GI would get it - unless he traded a russian - makes the idea unlikely. On the other hand, there was a huge auction from a respected auction house in Lancaster PA last year with lots of 20th SS stuff, so when I saw this I thought it might be remotely possible. I didnt pay an "SS price" for it, so I dont lose, and now I have a clear conscience on how to describe it.
Ben R

[james m]

Here is part of an Ad posted in the March 1958 issue of Guns Magazine by EMF which was a large firm importing surplus firearms at that time. Note that they actually catalogue nickle plated Lugers implying that they have ample stocks on hand. I personally think this firm and others were a primary source of plated pistols. I'd be interested in hearing others views on this matter:
BTW: Oh to go back in time!
Jim

[GerColctor]

James M

Notice they wanted more $$ for the nickle finished models then the standard issue Lugers. Makes you wonder if they or a supplier were refinishing blued models into nickled Lugers in order to gain a higher premium. There is almost a 15% difference in the price.

Joe

[james m]

Precisely my point Joe. Also note that the Ad states that the blued ones have an excellent finish. What became of the ones with less than an excellent finish?
There are a lot of happenings going on behind the scenes that probably were and never will be made public.
I had an old time importer who still has a warehouse full of stuff tell me the last time we got together that he regretted passing up a deal in the early 80's. The Chinese Government offered him 10,000 Mauser C96s for $1.00 each provided he took all of them! He was a little short on cash at the time so decided to pass.
I you or anyone else here like these Ads I can post more.
Jim