"Best" K98 manufacturer

[geopop71]

K98

You gotta admit, from 10 ft away, thay all certainly look the same. If the germans had not been so over particular about all those wasted numbers, there would be plenty of nice Mauser K98's around! And priced decent!
Back in the thirties, when they first started making them, they even matched the bayonet and scabbards to the rifle. Richard Law pointed that out in his book! Hitler himself inspected the Mauser plant during the early thirties, when the K98 was still a long rifle.

The above pic of a RC proves a point, it looks like a great rifle, cant tell if the numbers match from here.
geopop

[phild]

I guess my first response to this did not post

IMO a few mis-matched parts do not destroy the collector integrity of the item. There are plenty of guns with a mis-matched part or two that have sold for 20 to 30k and more.

Also I do not buy that bayonets were (German WWII) serialed to match the rifle. They had their own serial number ranges applied at the makers and had nothing to do with a rifle until they were issued....with their own differnt numbers.

If anyone can show that this is not correct I would love to here it.

[geopop71]

Matching Bayonets

To reply to the post about matching bayonets to the rifle.
On the first page of Richard Laws BBOTW it shows a photo of Hitler visiting
the Mauser factory, I am quoting the text below the photo--"Hitler and his entourage have entered the main door of the facility, and are being formally
greeted by the officer in charge. Note the rifle racks, each section of which contains a disassembled Karabiner 98b with it's stock next to the barreled reciever. The small parts for each rifle are in the holding tray in front, with
matching bayonet's neatly aligned beneath."
How would you read this? Did I mis - interpet that statement?
It would not surprize me one tiny bit, if in the early days, they had done this. Maybe some one has some information. Hell, if they matched the screws for gods sake, why not bayonets? I agree, it would not make any sense, bayos can be easily lost or mixed up, but so can bolts or other parts. Knowing the early German mentality for details????? What reason would there be for lining
up the bayonets under the rifle? Just curious!
geopop

[phild]

There is incorrect information in every reference that I have read and Law's is no exception. That facility that Hitler is visiting is not a factory but rather some type of re-work/repair and or deopt facility....probably a SS one rather than Mauser although Mauser did have a seperate facility for re-working rifles.

At any rate, since no serial numbers on anything can be seen no one could possibly know if those bayonets were actually numbered to match the rifles that they are laying beside...I can say that they are not as to my knowledge not a single example of a post manufactured applied rifle serial number has been reported on a German Army 98k bayonet and they would be easy to spot.

I've even seen "collectors" demanding and turning down k98ks with bayonets because the numbers did not match on both....If anyone ever finds a bayonet with number and letter that match a rifle number and letter then they can bet it is a luck find and a post war contrived match.

The German bayonet makers numbered the bayonets and scabbards the in the same convention that the rifle makers did (more or less as there is some variety used by both).

I am always hesitant to say never and always in this hobby, but I will tell anyone that both rifles and bayonets were numbered at the factories where they were made and trying to coordinate getting a matched numbered bayonet together with the same number on a rifle would have been near impossible and a COMPLETE waste of time and energy.

Ask about this over on the edged weapons forum and see what they tell you.

[rick1]

Matching could have meant to each other in that statement, scabbard to bayo.

"Also I do not buy that bayonets were (German WWII) serialed to match the rifle. They had their own serial number ranges applied at the makers and had nothing to do with a rifle until they were issued....with their own differnt numbers."

I'm with phild I don't think they matched either.
Rick

[Tiger 1]

What may have been meant by matching bayonet is the proper bayonet for the 98k and not matching numbers.

Bayonets were manufactured by numerous cutlery companies. These were numbered in blocks of 10,000 with a alphabetic letter to denote the next series of 10,000 bayonets. There is no way the Germans would have spent valuable labor or manufacturing time to match a bayonet number to a rifle number.

For what it's worth.

Oh, by the way I vote for Original Mauser made rifles as being the best. Especially those early 1934 sneak models such as the Ch. d. Amt. marked ones or the Standard models that have the one waffen amt on the reciever ring stamped above the Mauser banner. These weapons, while procurred for service were commercial quality with the BUG proof marks. Just lovely.

Tony

[phild]

T
On the first page of Richard Laws BBOTW it shows a photo of Hitler visiting
the Mauser factory, I am quoting the text below the photo--"Hitler and his entourage have entered the main door of the facility, and are being formally
greeted by the officer in charge. Note the rifle racks, each section of which contains a disassembled Karabiner 98b with it's stock next to the barreled reciever. The small parts for each rifle are in the holding tray in front, with
matching bayonet's neatly aligned beneath."
How would you read this? Did I mis - interpet that statement?
geopop

Not to beat a dead horse and I have not seen that photo in probably 10 years, but as I recall all ot the uniformed on site officers and EM in that photo (I think there was another from the series published in Law's Sniper book?) were SS.

I can say with some confidence that no uniformed SS personnel had any assigned duties at any Mauser plant facilities during the mid 1930s when those photos were taken.

In other words I don't believe or even see how they could have been taken at Mauser or any any other production factory. They are re-working and or storing 98b type rifles....a mainstay of the SS VT and SSTV at the time.

My only point here is that we all have to really weigh what we read even in excellent reference books.

[geopop71]

Matching Bayo

Richard Law may have only assumed they were matching as it is obviose one can not tell from the picture! I am sure that one of those would have turned up at some time, or some collector would have learned of them if they did exsist. I was just taking his written word at face value. Like you said, even the experts are not 100 % correct.
Thanks for the input geopop

[landsknechte]

Seems like it would be pretty easy to put the question of matching bayonet and rifle serials to rest (one way or the other) by checking the serials in Soldbuchs. I don't recall ever seeing them match, but then again, I wasn't really looking for that.

[landsknechte]

Picked it up this weekend, and I'm pleased to report that it's quite a nice rifle. Something of a Frankenstein (I've counted 12 different Waffenamts), but the bore is perfect.

[albertasteve]

I am going to say 1941 Portugese contract K98's made by Oberndorf. Of all my K98's, they have consistently the best fit and finish.

[Ben R]

I have way too many mausers; at least thats what my wife says. I agree with you guys who say that the prewar "42"s are the standard in terms of finish; I also happen to like the "S/27" ermas with their unique "Mod 98" lettering. It is tough to compare them, since they are 70 years old and have been through a war, but most of the prewar 98k's have a better finish than many of today's production hunting rifles, and therefore I cant look down on any manufacturer. My favorite is a 1917 Spandau Gew.98 that saw the end of WW1, was converted to a 98b configuration (freikorps?), then had the barrel shortened and was restocked to 98k specs to be reissued - as best as I can tell from the waffenampts - in the late 30's. thats some rollercoaster ride of history there.
BR

[Old Time Hunter]

I kinda like the ERMA's also, I know they only produced them from 1935 up to 1941 (wonder why that is?). Mine seems to have a bit better finish than my CE and 42.