C&R License

[Lignemaginot]

A few questions for my fellow C&R holders here in the US:

Best if I give you an example: I decide that I want to sell a 1911 Colt pistol manufactured in 1918. I put it on gunbroker.com. Someone in Illinois (for example) is the buyer.

I assume that he needs a C&R in order for me to ship it to him - or, I could ship it to an FFL owner in Illinois, who will then do the paperwork and give it to the buyer. However, if he sends me his C&R (and we don't go through an FFL), what do I do about the waiting period (if there is one in that state)? If I'm shipping to another C&R holder, do I need to know and follow all the rules about selling firearms in that state? Or is he (as a C&R holder) responsible for following the rules? Or, does a C&R holder not have to follow those types of rules if he's buying a C&R weapon?

As a buyer, let's say that I buy a C&R weapon on gunbroker... if I send the seller a copy of my C&R license, can he just ship it to me here in RI? There's a 7-day waiting period here - can he send it to me immediately just because I have a C&R?

II go from my home here in RI to (let's say) PA to a gun show, and I show my C&R, can I just walk out with a pistol that I purchase? Or do I have to wait a week (if there's a waiting period in PA, I don't know)?

Same goes for here in RI - there's a 7 day waiting period - if I walk into a store, can I show my C&R license and walk out with a C&R weapon without waiting 7 days?

The rules are pretty confusing.....

[bigschuss]

These are good questions. Here is my experience with my C&R.

It is the buyer's responsibility to make sure it is legal for him to acept a C&R weapon. I am pretty sure that the there is no "wait period" with a C&R. That's one of the points of having the license and having gone through all of the BATF paperwork to get it. For example, I bought a P38 and a CZ 27 from a local gun dealer last year here in Massachsuetts. He literally handed them over the counter to me from the gun case and that was it. No paperwork. No phone call to the BATF. And also didn't charge me tax.

Last year I was at the Springfield, Mass gun show and I wanted to buy a
1911A1 from a dealer who was there from Maine. I didn't have my C&R with me. But had I had it, I could've walked out of the show with the pistol.

Those are just a few thoughts. I hope they help. My best advise I guess, whatever you do, is to make sure you keep your bound book dutifully. I think that is probably the most important thing you can do.

Best,
Blair

[Josh Beckett]

The buyer must have the C&R, the seller doesnt need the C&R, the C&R doesnt allow you to deal in firearms, you need an 01 FFL for that.

[bigschuss]

The buyer must have the C&R, the seller doesnt need the C&R, the C&R doesnt allow you to deal in firearms, you need an 01 FFL for that.

Josh, let's be clear. He doesn't need a C&R to sell the thing on gunbroker. But he MUST have one if he want to ship it out of state himself. No C&R and shipping firearms across state lines is a big problem with he BATF.

Also, the collecting of firearms, both buying and selling, is perfectly fine with a C&R. When does "collecting" turn into "dealing?" Well, that's why you keep a bound book, and that's why you don't purchase 8 Garands from the CMP per year and turn around and sell them for a profit in that same year.

Again, you need a C&R to ship. I'm pretty sure the only time a private gun owner, with no FFL or C&R, can ship a weapon, or receive one in the mail, is if the weapon is being sent back to the company (like Remington Arms) for some reason. I did this once with an Ithaca Deerslayer II that had a forend that rattled like crazy. From my home to Ithaca back to my door with no FFLL or C&R.

[zinfull]

You need to be sure what the local laws are when dealing with pistols. In CA it is a FFL01 only, but long guns are OK. In Ill I think you need a special card to own a fire arm. It is just easier to send to FFL01's and let them decide if the guy can legally own the gun. It is just CYA.

Jerry

[Josh Beckett]

Josh, let's be clear. He doesn't need a C&R to sell the thing on gunbroker. But he MUST have one if he want to ship it out of state himself. No C&R and shipping firearms across state lines is a big problem with he BATF.

Also, the collecting of firearms, both buying and selling, is perfectly fine with a C&R. When does "collecting" turn into "dealing?" Well, that's why you keep a bound book, and that's why you don't purchase 8 Garands from the CMP per year and turn around and sell them for a profit in that same year.

Again, you need a C&R to ship. I'm pretty sure the only time a private gun owner, with no FFL or C&R, can ship a weapon, or receive one in the mail, is if the weapon is being sent back to the company (like Remington Arms) for some reason. I did this once with an Ithaca Deerslayer II that had a forend that rattled like crazy. From my home to Ithaca back to my door with no FFLL or C&R.

Thanks for the correction

[MikeP]

Children should be seen and not heard.

If he has a C&R in Illinois you can ship a C&R to him.
Must be through a overnight carrier for a handgun.
No post office out side of a ffl dealer.
There are a couple areas of Illinois that restrict ownership.
That needs checking on.
Waiting period does not apply.
You may sell or trade pieces from your collection now and then without violating anything.

[Lignemaginot]

These are good questions. Here is my experience with my C&R.

It is the buyer's responsibility to make sure it is legal for him to acept a C&R weapon. I am pretty sure that the there is no "wait period" with a C&R. That's one of the points of having the license and having gone through all of the BATF paperwork to get it. For example, I bought a P38 and a CZ 27 from a local gun dealer last year here in Massachsuetts. He literally handed them over the counter to me from the gun case and that was it. No paperwork. No phone call to the BATF. And also didn't charge me tax.

Last year I was at the Springfield, Mass gun show and I wanted to buy a
1911A1 from a dealer who was there from Maine. I didn't have my C&R with me. But had I had it, I could've walked out of the show with the pistol.

Those are just a few thoughts. I hope they help. My best advise I guess, whatever you do, is to make sure you keep your bound book dutifully. I think that is probably the most important thing you can do.

Best,
Blair

Thanks Blair - the feeling I'm getting is that a C&R allows you to ship immediately to another C&R (if it's a C&R weapon, of course) anywhere in the country. As you said, a C&R license shows that the person has been vetted by the BATF, and so is supposedly following their own state laws.

[vitts]

Just to clarify a point brought up here in this thread. If I am a collector of say, M1 garands, and I go to the CMP and buy a 4- Garands. I look them over maybe interchange some parts to come up with a matching rifle and when I am done I sell the other three. That is OK, I am working to enhance or improve my collection. Same if I was to order a couple P.38's from SOG, or Centerfire, I can get rid of them both if they do not meet my standards or I am unhappy with them. But like you say I can not just start buying guns and selling them. Your purchase habits must follow some kind of collecting. but your collecting habits can change. However even then, I have bought a luger from an older gentleman and he made me take a carbine with it, he would not sell them seperately. I got them both and sold the carbine. C&R has a lot gray area's and you can go on forever with different scenario's.

sorry to go on so long but this is a very cloudy area full of if's and but's ///frank v.

[bigschuss]

Thanks Blair - the feeling I'm getting is that a C&R allows you to ship immediately to another C&R (if it's a C&R weapon, of course) anywhere in the country. As you said, a C&R license shows that the person has been vetted by the BATF, and so is supposedly following their own state laws.

Yes, absolutely. MikeP and vitts also make great points about the grey areas, overnight shipping if it's a pistol, and possible restricted zones. One other thing I remember now is that you'll need to send it also with an Adult Signature option on the other end.

Best of luck with the transfer.
Blair

[Lignemaginot]

Well, I haven't actually sold anything yet, and don't have anything (currently) that I would sell.

However, when I purchased the 1911 Colt a couple of months ago, it occurred to me that it's not like buying a WWII crusher cap; if I get too many hats, I can always sell them no worries. But if I start tripping over pistols lying around the place (just kidding!), I want to make sure that I know how to sell them on.

Thanks again to all.

[landsknechte]

How long does a C&R app typically take to go through the system?

[vitts]

I got mine back in three weeks which is very quick. I have heard others that have taken up to three months. Good luck with yours, it opens up a whole new area of collecting and can get pretty costly. frank v.

I went from P.38's to High Powers. Looking for only the nicest after four years of buying with my C&R


byf 43
byf 44
byf 44 dual tone
svw 45
and an ac45 mismatch in the early c block

I have also added 8 other byf (Mauser) pistols since this picture
I seem to have settled on the BYF pistols

[vitts]

old pic I now have 5 HP's

early pre war Belgian marked pistol with tangent sight and slotted frame
German marked with tangent & slotted frame
German marked with tangent & no slot
A mid numbered "a" series
A late numbered "b" series

[Lignemaginot]

How long does a C&R app typically take to go through the system?

Mine took about two months. Rather anti-climatic - all you get is a piece of paper.