P38 Value?

[bodes]

Fellow Forum Members, I recently had the opportunity to view a vet bringback (no papers) P38 complete with hardshell holster ('43 dated).......It's all-matching including the clip.....It was made by 'cyq' (Spreewerke)......Now for the bad news.....It has fair to moderate pitting on about 20-30% of its exterior, and 10-15% rust/pitting on the magazine.......The bore is also weak and pitted....The finish has probably 60-70% bluing left......The closing strap on the holster has come off but is still there......

What's a ballpark value?......Does the matched numbered clip add that much?....Or does the poor condition of the rest of the rig undermine this?.....All opinions appreciated as usual......Bodes

[nomadr]

cyq (Spreewerke) was never issued with matching magazines. So if it dose have one, it is post war! Also cyqs were a rough finish to begin with. So not on the top of a P.38 collectors list

It's hard to give a value without a picture, but going by your description (poor) I would say not more than $275- $350.???

Bob

[pdstout]

Value

You know as well as I do, that if it was on a dealers table. It would be priced at $900.00, in the condition you describe. If you were trying to sell it to the dealer. He would offer you $300.00, if that much. If it were in better shape, with the holster it would bring more. Rust, wear, holster damage, and maker mean alot. The cyq is not a hard to find p38. Early p38s like the 0series, 480 codes, ac40, and byf42s bring more.
P. Stout 07FFL/SOT

[bodes]

cyq (Spreewerke) was never issued with matching magazines. So if it dose have one, it is post war! Also cyqs were a rough finish to begin with. So not on the top of a P.38 collectors list

It's hard to give a value without a picture, but going by your description (poor) I would say not more than $275- $350.???

Bob

Thanks Bob, To be honest I didn't take a close gander at the number on the magazine.....I was busy looking over the pisol itself......The owner just happened to mention it matched......

My thoughts were the same in terms of value.......Bodes

[bodes]

You know as well as I do, that if it was on a dealers table. It would be priced at $900.00, in the condition you describe. If you were trying to sell it to the dealer. He would offer you $300.00, if that much. If it were in better shape, with the holster it would bring more. Rust, wear, holster damage, and maker mean alot. The cyq is not a hard to find p38. Early p38s like the 0series, 480 codes, ac40, and byf42s bring more.
P. Stout 07FFL/SOT

Mr. Stout, That is one of the unfortunate "pitfalls" involving buyers and sellers.....Dealers are out to make a profit, and quite often the bigger the better......And sellers are out to make the most they can (often wanting to be compensated for sentimental ties)......They (sellers) become highly influenced by prices on the internet......They see a $900+ P38, and automatically figure theirs is worth that, regardless of condition......In the end, the collector gets squeezed......Bodes

[TheReichStuff]

cyq

The cyq is a piece of junk, poorly made and even the ones that look clean and mint they will never appreciate as much as the walthers, no matter how much a dealer wills it too. I wouldn't pay more than 350 to 600 for one and 600 is pushing it. I think there is a reason that every gun show I go to I walk by cyqs and nobody wants them, infact almost any dealer table that has WWII firearms is bound to have one of those in mediocre condition.

[bodes]

The cyq is a piece of junk, poorly made and even the ones that look clean and mint they will never appreciate as much as the walthers, no matter how much a dealer wills it too. I wouldn't pay more than 350 to 600 for one and 600 is pushing it. I think there is a reason that every gun show I go to I walk by cyqs and nobody wants them, infact almost any dealer table that has WWII firearms is bound to have one of those in mediocre condition.

Thanks for the input RS......I believe Spreewerke (cyq) was a contractor used to building artillery pieces......So in defence of them, perhaps pistols proved to be something they weren't equipped as well to produce?.....As somebody like say Walther or Mauser.....

But it is reassuring to know that I'm not walking away from something, that I may worry about in the future.......Bodes

[ChrisCook]

Cyq

Hard to say without seeing pics, but if the holster is in fairly decent shape, other than the closing strap, I would say 150$ on the holster. The pistol, probably another 250$.....I would avoid it for the pitting and lack of bluing, you can find a better example. Some of the CYQ's actually are made quite well, it is hit and miss. I have a CYQ that is every bit as good as any Midwar Walther or Mauser that I own. Chris...
Mag is postwar renumbered, Last of the matching mags run through about the C block (this is off the top of my head, so I may be a little bit off, but not by much) on AC42 Walthers.

[MikeP]

Good post, Mr Stout.

I blew up a cyq I had for many years.
A lug sheared off the locking block, caught in the channel and caused the top strap to tear loose on one side and spread the slide a bit.

All cyq' have very thin top straps.
They are sort of last ditch pieces.

[phild]

Good post, Mr Stout.

I blew up a cyq I had for many years.
A lug sheared off the locking block, caught in the channel and caused the top strap to tear loose on one side and spread the slide a bit.

All cyq' have very thin top straps.
They are sort of last ditch pieces.

I agree with Chris Cook's observations in total.

The problem described above can and has happened with every maker and ERA of P38! It happend on a BW "P.1" that I carried in the service. I am also aware of it on AC's and I believe a byf. P.38s had a chance of doing this and I have never been 100% comfortable depending my life on one, although I love to shoot them. Locking block failures and top covers flying off are not rare happenings with P.38s in general.

I think that the roughness of the cyq is very overstated by many in the collecting community. At any rate a WWII weapon's lack of quality in finish would have little to do with value as evidenced by the extreme prices many will pay for 1945 last ditch German and Japanese firearms and bayonets!

One thing is beyond dispute and that is that Spreewerke was the least produced of the three makers. Also I have seen a real appreciation and re-look of the cyq P.38s in recent years...as they were somewhat looked down on for so many years.

[pitts duncan]

my two cents

i own a cyq p38 in excellent condition and with an altered holster (flap cut off for quick access) i conceed the machining is rougher than other makers but imagine the specs are identical, so an exploding problem would be common or not characteristic of all ww2 p38s. i would not sell my p38 for 600 bucks and anticipate in a few years i would not take almost double that. truth is where i am in fla there are almost no ww2 guns of 80 percent quality at all at the shows or privately for sale. used to be at a show i'd see dozens of p08s and many p38s. i have been to a few shows in central fla lately where less than 6 of both were for sale and then at 1200 dollars or more. its crazy. the condition of your pistol is the key question. a good to very good one i would expect to pay here min 375 to 475. in the condition you describe 275 and 75 more for the holster. as the book says collectability aka value falls off dramatically in guns of 30 to 40 percent condition. if you can find a really nice cyq i would buy it almost as fast as another maker. in other words i would be guided by condition, not maker. especially if you want to eventually have a nice example of all the makers. that would be cool. i think the matching clip question has been addressed. i did not know no matching number clips were made for cyqs. mine has no number. are you sure about that? you might buy the cyq cheap then trade it in on a premier piece to a dealer with jacked up prices. just jack your asking price up as crazy as his. you never know....

[bodes]

the condition of your pistol is the key question. a good to very good one i would expect to pay here min 375 to 475. in the condition you describe 275 and 75 more for the holster. as the book says collectability aka value falls off dramatically in guns of 30 to 40 percent condition. if you can find a really nice cyq i would buy it almost as fast as another maker. in other words i would be guided by condition, not maker. especially if you want to eventually have a nice example of all the makers. that would be cool.

P.D., I'm pretty close to you in terms of potential value.....I offered the woman $250 for the rig, however it's my impression she believes it's worth far more because of what she's seen on the internet......Without taking into consideration the condition it is in.....And personally I would not buy/not buy due solely to maker......Condition is important on pieces that aren't rare IMO......

i think the matching clip question has been addressed. i did not know no matching number clips were made for cyqs. mine has no number. are you sure about that? you might buy the cyq cheap then trade it in on a premier piece to a dealer with jacked up prices. just jack your asking price up as crazy as his. you never know....

I'm going to contact the woman again and see about the magazine serial number......I know it had a number on it, but I didn't match it up to the other serial #'s.....Stupid me ......Bodes

[bodes]

I think that the roughness of the cyq is very overstated by many in the collecting community. At any rate a WWII weapon's lack of quality in finish would have little to do with value as evidenced by the extreme prices many will pay for 1945 last ditch German and Japanese firearms and bayonets!

Personally I did not notice much of a difference in quality between this pistol ('cyq') and the Mauser P38 I own.....Other than the obvious wear, lack of finish and pitting.....

Do not forget however that "last ditch" items are also desirable due in part to variations involved.......But yes, the rougher the better is often the way many collectors like them......Bodes

[vitts]

I would have to agree with those that are saying the cyq is put together well and they function just as well as any other maker. The quality of finish is lacking but we must keep in mind what these pistols were used for and where they were going. As collectors we tend to get a little picky. I have come to the point where I only buy byf guns in 95% or better condition, and that is my main area of concentration. There are just to many out there so I stick to a smaller sub-group of collecting.

All that said I would encourage a person to buy a cyq before he would buy a P1 or some alloy framed P.38

Just to add I will also tell person "the mag is correct" to let them know the mag. has the correct markings on it for the manufacturer of the pistol

Good Luck frank v.

[pdstout]

cyq

No matter what maker ac, byf, svw, or cyq. Condition jacks the price! If original un messed with, that means ALOT! The price is allways what ever someone will pay, or take. I got a mint bcd g43 with scope for $200.00. Just because I asked what the seller wanted for it. It was given to him, and he made $200.00. In his mind he ripped me off.
That is what every dealer in the WORLD will do. They will NEVER make you a offer until you set the price. It is almost like, I will give you a dollar to take it and the dealer will say (will you give me five)! That is why I leave most shows MAD!
The biggest show I go to is the Show of Shows in Louisville. Every dealer in the show has GOLD on their tables. What you have is scrap iron, or that is what they want you to think. They will allways come back with, when they make you a low ball offer (this is how I make a living). If you have been their you know it is true. The sad part is, I still go back.
P. Stout 07FFL/SOT