K98 sniper question

[Matt Weber]

All right, I know we have some great experts here on sniper rifles so I have a quick question on one.
Please bear in mind that I do not have this rifle in question, nor am I purchasing it. I just was shown photos of it, and it puzzled me a bit.

The rifle in question is a low turret sniper. Now, of course there are ordanance assembled, and contractor assembled turret mount snipers. The difference being the proof markings located on the receiever after the serial number, and on the after turret mount. This one had proof marks, so it was a contractor produced turret mount.

Now, it is my understanding, and perhaps I am wrong here, that only two contractors produced the turret mount snipers; Mauser, Obendorf, and J.P. Sauer. Is that correct?

This one was a Mauser rifle based on proof markings and it was a 1942 or later dated based on the fact that it had milled bands, but front band was the closed type, not the earlier "H" pattern.
It is also my understanding that Mauser turret sniper rifles had the proof markings on the receiver and aft turret mount of "eagle/135". Is that correct?
Because this rifle in question, had the proof marking "eagle/63". Now I know this proof mark is associated with earlier production rifles at Mauser, Obendorf, but does it belong on a contractor produced low turret sniper rifle? Perhaps this is an early produced sniper rifle, and the bands were changed? Are there Mauser produced turret mounts with the "eagle/63" proof mark? I looked in Senichs' book, and couldn't find any! all "eagle/135".

As I said, unfortunately I don't have access to the rifle so I can't post photos of it, so hopefully I explained it well enough? This is mearly for me to clear things up in my head so I'm not cofused. Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

[sszza2]

Matt,

You need to also throw into the mix wartime refurbs of damaged snipers. This could account for legitimate stock and/or band replacement.

Bottom line is that without photos and/or a detailed part by part analysis it is very problematic to make a call. More 'BBOTW' fakes than legit examples. Collecting other than vanilla specimens of snipers is a recipe for disaster unless you are really well versed on the subject.

[phild]

There would be a gap of about 2 years between when the last e63 (39)was used by Mauser and when the E135 was introduced late 41 or really into 1942 with the solid band.

I guess the other issue or question is if Mauser (or Sauer) ever fitted up sniper systems to reworked or older (non new production) rifles. I personally have never heard of any evidence for this and I would not see a point to it as this was being done at the ordanance facilities.

My understanding is that Mauser (Obendorf) and Sauer were the only two factories that fitted out turret mount snipers. Many believe that these factories did not actually get underway with turret assembly until around 1942, prior to this the work was done by the Army ord. depots.

The early mount systems fitted by both the Army and the factories were the Low Turret configs. and beginning at some point (maybe around mid-year) in 1943 the High Turret mounts were introduced. There was certainly a transition period with Low turret systems being used up and installed well into late 1943 and maybe a few were even installed into 1944.

High turrets seem much more common than Low turrets and I am not sure if any High turrets were assembled outside of the two factories? Maybe someone can help with that question.

Bottom line is that factory installation did not begin at least in full swing until around 1942 and it seems that non factory work dropped off during the same time period so that by 1943 and 1944 all or most all turret mount fitting occured at the factory level only.

[Matt Weber]

Thanks guys. But can you honestly tell me if there is such a thing as a factory produced turret mount sniper with the early "eagle/63" proof marking? I couldn't find any in Laws' book or Senichs' book?

Matt

[sszza2]

See below.

[sszza2]

IMO - its possible. I believe that Argentine 1909 snipers utilizing a low turret system pre-date the war. So why not? However, given the rarified territory that snipers already exist in - why would anyone but a highly advanced sniper collector want anything but a safe, vanilla specimen?

Scott

[Matt Weber]

I totally agree Scott! I just had never seen one with the "eagle/63" proof, and was questioning its' validity.

Thanks,
Matt