Late war K98k byf44 - help.

[P08]

I went to a gun show today and suddenly spotted a nice looking K98k. It was a byf44 in quite good condition (also excellent barrel), not matching numbers (bolt is from another K98).

The sling and cleaning rod are missing (some 1944 were made without cleaning rods?). The laminated stock doesn't have the Eagle over H stamp nor serial stamps? Is that normal for a late war K98k?

The underside of the rear sight is plain which I remember was introduced in 1944 to save production time and money. Barrel was stamped with a triangle symbol and 44.

The serial number was only stamped on the barrel left side and not the chamber. Can that be original? The chamber doesn't look reblued at all and even if it had been it isn't a reason to delete the serial. There were WaA stamps though. Can anyone explain this? I think I once saw a dou44 that was similar.

The serial is: 20379, no letter suffix. (If anybody can roughly date this serial then please do)

[P08]

Are there nobody here who's able to roughly date this rifle?

[Matt Wilson]

Greetings P,

I have a dou 44 as you describe - serialed on the barrel, rather than the receiver. I have also seen other specimens like this, & I don't think this is cause for concern. Experts will hopefully chime in.

I believe the change in the rear sight stamping was a bit earlier - '41-'42, perhaps?

There were nearly a million & a half byf 44s produced, so I would speculate yours was assembled fairly early in the year. Trying to pin down an exact month might be difficult, unless you know which factories had slow-downs at a particular time, due to bombings, material shortages, etc. But I would be inclined to believe a 20xxx SN w/o a suffix may well have been built in the beginning of '44.

If it is, in fact, a very early '44 production, I would question the lack of markings on the wood. Certainly a look inside the barrel channel would clear up any doubts?

Best,
Matt

[Suber]

Give me a bit of time and I will look up the rifle in question for you. I have very good references listing nearly all manufacturing dates. I have a BYF that is in the 4 digit range 1941, yours is much latter down the line. The byf I have is stamped on the barrel and the receiver. I will get back very soon. Mike

[P08]

Thanks for your answers. It was a now or never buy at a gunshow so now I'm trying to find out more about the rifle. I only had a quick look and will now have to wait perhaps a month or so before my permit arrives in the mail so I can take the rifle home.

I'm very ignorant on 5 digit serials on K98k's. Did they first go through 4 digit series will all letter suffixes and then switch to 5 digit serials building up first with no suffix and then with suffixes?

[Suber]

The byf that you are looking at with a serial number of 20379 would place it somewhere near the 3/4 mark in production for the byfs of that year (1944). Mauser Werke Oberndorf produced from the lowest SN observed 2875 to the highest SN observed 34233o for that year of production. The total number produced by byf in 1944 is listed as 1,434,219. It is interesting to see the huge increase in production from byf if you compare that number to the 1942 stats, total production 380,421 by byf.

[Bob in OH]

Actually, the K98 gurus have pretty good understanding of byf44 production. For Mauser Oberndorf in '44, production was done by blocks and those blocks correspond to months.

A SN w/o an alpha corresponds to Jan, while the 'a' block is Feb and so forth. If yours lacks an alpha, yours is a Jan '44 rifle. Not all blocks were finished in '44. Blocks go from a,b,c,... (no j) ... and ended with the l(L)-block for December.

Again, the general brain trust on these suggests Law's overestimated '44 production by many thousands. I suggest you take specific questions over to...

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4

[Suber]

Good info Bob, indeed the second edition I have is probably very dated (1993).

[Mike Steves]

I have a few problems with your rifle from the description. Bob is right about the serial blocks, and no suffix should be January 1944. However, in January 1944 the serials were being applied to the reciever only, and not the barrel. Like Bob said, collectors have a good understanding of byf production late in the war, and Backbone is wrong on production numbers. However, the only letter blocks I have ever observed (off the top of my head) in byf44 production with serials on the barrel are the "h, i, and k" suffix blocks. Also, from your description, the rifle was possibly in a Kriegsmodell stock- those show up in the "L" block of byf44, the final block (not counting the "n" block guns which are an anomoly).

[Matt Wilson]

Open mouth - insert foot!

That's what I get for comparing apples to oranges.

Not quite sure why I didn't just go pick up the byf 44 in the other room for comparison. Suber, perhaps this will provide another snippet of data for your files, as well.

Mismatched parts gun - import byf 44, defaced eagles, but apparent matching original finish on barrel & receiver. SN 2642 g on receiver - no # on the barrel.

Hope this info proves a bit more useful.

Best,
Matt

[Suber]

I would have to agree that in all likelyhood this k98 that you are looking at is probably a parts gun. There is nothing wrong with that if you are looking at it for a shooter. I have a byf41 that has mismatched floorplate, bolt, but the barrel and receiver and stock are matched. If the guy doesnt want an arm and a leg, there is nothing wrong with it. I am curious what the front bands look like, milled, stamped, welded etc?

The reality is in todays market you will NOT find an all original, untouched k98 unless it comes out of someones collection. With that, be prepared for a hefty price tag, unless you get lucky enough to find an old vet that has had it stashed for many years and wants to get rid of it. I do not own a fully matching k98, but I would love to!!

[Suber]

Matt, where are you in AZ? I am in Albuquerque.

[P08]

Thanks all of you for good posts. I now wonder if there was in fact a letter suffix to the serial. It may be that I overlooked it, but the dealer wrote a serial without suffix on a piece of paper to me. However dealers and the weapons office often disregard letter prefixes/suffixes so it's hard to tell. Right now he's off to Germany so I can't phone him.

But I have learned a lot already thanks to you guys When I get the rifle I'll take some photos. It could be interesting to find out just how mismatched it is, if not a put together parts rifle.

[Suber]

I am curious how much he is asking for the rifle? Be careful not to pay too much for it, if it is a parts gun. I only paid 175.00 for mine years ago. I do not know how much they are going for nowdays.

[P08]

I bought the rifle for 423 USD which by our standards isn't exactly cheap but not expensive either. In general you can't find decent K98's for less than 350 USD here. I needed this K98k as a shooter. A couple of years ago I had the luck of buying a mint all matching (except cleaning rod) S/27 1937 for about 300 USD. As you see the market here isn't logical. Also we have lots of junk K98's offered at prices from 350 and up (I have gone through quite a few telling the seller, who thinks it's a gem; no thanks).