SS K98 Rifle

[paul a]

Just got back from Beltring and managed to pick up a nice K 98 BNZ 1943 with the SS ZZA4 proof mark. Unfortunately I don't have my copy of Backbone of the Wehrmacht around at present as I have lent it to a mate of mine. Can anybody give me any info on how rare the rifles are and where they were made/assembled and any other bits of info
Thanks in advance
Paul

[paul a]

xxx

xxx

[paul a]

xxxx

xxxxx

[paul a]

anyone

[jacobtowne]

bnz and runes suggest work done at Steyr-Daimler-Puch by concentration camp personel under SS supervision, according to Ball.

Interesting to see what appear to be the crossed scepters of the Birmingham Viewer's Mark.

Nice rifle. Have you shot it yet?

JT

[sszza2]

Legitimate SS marked rifles have unique fit, finish, markings and numbering convention. What I can see from the pictures is at odds with some aspects of known original specimens. I do not attribute these differences to postwar English proofing. I own a completely correct, matching early deathshead rework rifle which retains all standard SS characteristics with additional English proofing. I would like to see detailed pictures before passing final judgement.

[Frogprince]

Early SS weapons are what they are having been procured outside German Army channels. But with the war the situation changed with the Waffen SS getting a lion’s share of German armaments.

In a 1944 speech Himmler boasted that 1/3 of all 98K barrels were made by concentration camp inmates. Of course he also made some other boasts in that speech which were not supported by the facts. And barrels while very important, are only a single component, and without receivers, bolts etc. you don’t have a usable weapon.

My point being that the SS did contract out the labor of KZ inmates to the German armaments industry. Does the presence of an SS marking on a barrel indicate that an item is or was the property of the SS? Or simply that it was assembled under SS direction with the intended customer being the Wehrmacht? FP

[sszza2]

Labor was a commodity, which the SS had plenty of. This labor was utilized by countless firms for countless purposes. The output not necessarily for the direct benefit of the SS.

Himmler was typically inaccurate in his comments about SS production capabilities. Your point is well taken. The SS were assemblers of rifles but never manufacturers of complete assemblies and all components.

A single runic style mark is occassionally found on the bottom of bbls or rear sites of a few manufacturers assemblies dated '43-'45. These bbls are typically not found on std SS marked assemblies. This is similar to the circle V7 marking which is rarely found on SS marked assemblies. Single runic marked receivers are a different story. In any case SS marked rifle assemblies follow very clear patterns distinctly different from std military issue assemblies.

[paul a]

Legitimate SS marked rifles have unique fit, finish, markings and numbering convention. What I can see from the pictures is at odds with some aspects of known original specimens. I do not attribute these differences to postwar English proofing. I own a completely correct, matching early deathshead rework rifle which retains all standard SS characteristics with additional English proofing. I would like to see detailed pictures before passing final judgement.

would you mind pointing out the problems that you seem to think my K98 has from what I can see it all looks bog standard and has all the correct proofs it has the SS ZZA4 stamp the 41 Ru barrel with inspectors stamp WaA 623 front barrel band eagle 77 but before you say that it has probably been remarked let me just say I purchased this gun with six other K98s the dealer has imported them from Yugoslavia and hadn't a clue about the markings in fact he never even noticed them, the rifle was bought for less money than it would have cost to get the stamps made up as they all were, this is my first SS marked K98 and apart from the bits in Backbone of the Wehrmacht I have no other information whatsoever, I have no doubts about its authenticity I just hoped someone could have shed a bit more information on this intriguing subject

[sszza2]

The sszza4 marking and RU41 bbl are good. However, receivers are never numbered on standard new production assemblies. They only appear on SS reworks where the receiver, if the rifle was obtained through std Wehrmacht allocations follow std military patterns. Yours is clearly not one of these reworks.

[gew98]

IMO - the serial on the receiver was added as some requirement of english firearms laws possibly. I suggest this as it is law in the US where rifles imported nowadays that have unserialed receivers have to have serials applied to the receivers before the importer can sell them - effectively frigging collector value on some otherwise nice items.

[Josh Beckett]

This is going to piss you off but the swords mean it is deactivated, anti gun evil has no limits

[sszza2]

The bottom line is that the subject rifle is suspicious based on what we see nevermind what we don't see. I have an all matching British proofed Kar98az to K98k spec completely matching SS deathshead rework. A few proofs were added but otherwise it was left alone. So the Brits arent/werent always too destructive.

[paul a]

i dont understand what is suspicious about this rifle ? According to the book it appears to be a pretty much straight forward K98 yes it has the serial number on the receiver I have been told some do some don't but from th source of this rifle and the price I paid for it (bought with a number of other rifles) I can't believe the marks have been added post war, the gun has been in England for about 6 weeks previous to that this group of K98s were in Yugoslavia being used not in collectors hands, the markings were not pointed out to me at the point of sale in fact the vendor didn't know about them nor I don't think would be particularly interested if he did, it would be helfpul if you could just give me a few pointers about this piece as opposed to trying to rubbish it and crowing that you have got a British marked original one perhaps mine is OK and yours is a remarked one, just a thought

[sszza2]

Havent seen enough information on your to give pointers past the current pictures. Post more and I will give more. However, be prepared as I don't operate in happy land and will give an honest appraisal in a direct manner.

As to my British proofed SS marked rifle. What an interesting position you have taken. Especially since your trust of 'BBOTW' flies in the face of almost all informed opinions these days. I would encourage you to check out some other forums on this subject. My rifle is completely correct and matching but is a deathshead not sszza4 variation.