1917 Artillery Luger & holster/stock rig

[Rick C]

Hoping for some enlightenment on one of my toys. Had this for 25 years & this is the first time I've really looked close at it (or photographed). It's been on my office wall with the rest of my German stuff and, once or twice to the range. I'm hoping to learn as much as possible about the proofs, where it's been, how you pros determine the ammount of finish (if any) remaining and what the rig is worth these days.

It's a "1917" Artillery Luger - seven inch barrell - Matching numbers - left side marked with the four digit serial number as well as the last two digits, underside of barrel marked four digit, right side of front site marked & top last two digits, rear & top of toggle marked 'last two digits, left side take down release marked last two digits, frame front under barrell marked four digit. Four proofs (meaning?) on right side - four different (foreign?) behind toggle & "S.W. Sales"
Backstrap engraved (see photo), Wooden bottomed Mag numbered: "1230"
Front strap stamped: 107.R. 4. 28; Stock - board type, Leather intact (brown)
two mag pouch attached - over the shoulder carrying strap. No markings to leather that I've noticed.

What can you folks tell me (& thanx ahead of time!) Rick C.

[Rick C]

2nd photo

[Rick C]

third photos

[Rick C]

proofs on right

[Rick C]

toggle

[Rick C]

rear proofs (foreign?)

[Rick C]

foreign engraving/writing on backstrap

[Rick C]

stamping on front of grip strap

[Rick C]

other holster view

[Rick C]

Mag pouch. So, what can I learn? Stamped "1917" above the receiver... Thanx, Rick C.

[GWA]

Your rig is really quite bizarre. The stock and leather is all reproduction, probably Paki origin. The upper part of the gun seems to be a correcct DWM artillery arrangement and the frame is from a 1936 Banner Mauser made for the Thai government. Since the latter is certainly the case, the unit marking on the front grip strap would be fake.

The marking on the rear grip strap is very interesting. I have never seen a Thai Luger that had such grip strap markings.

[Rick C]

GWA: Thanx for responding. What are the "unit markings" on the front strap you speak of? I don't know a thing about this except I saw it, I liked it (it need only be a gun for me to like it) & I bought it so the more detail you might provide would be very helpful. Rick C.

[GWA]

Rick, the front grip strap markings on your pistol are "107.R.4.28." which would indicate 107 Infantry Regiment, 4 Company, weapon 28. The style or format of marking is non-standard but that in itself should not discount originality. The fact that it is stamped into a Thai contract frame though should toss the whole thing out as bogus.

A last note should be made...much of what was done in Germany between the wars is still a mystery waiting to be solved. The possibility that some freelance outfit in Weimar Germany was supplying arms to the Thai government prior to 1933 is not totally unreasonable. Your pistol might be such a beast but it is highly unlikely.

I would like to see a series of photos of all the serial number placements.

[Rick C]

[the front grip strap markings on your pistol are "107.R.4.28." which would indicate 107 Infantry Regiment, 4 Company, weapon 28. The style or format of marking is non-standard but that in itself should not discount originality.]

GWA: This is interesting info. Should I assume it's related to the weapon's service in the German Wehrmacht before touring Asia? Where might I find info on the articulated Regiment?

You mention "originality" so I should clarify that I'm really not trying to establish a 'marketability' baseline. Rather, I hope to 'learn' the (proof mark) nuances & (travel) history off this thing. I, honestly, wouldn't care if it were a parts gun (which I don't think it is); my question on "value" was only related to if I should be avoiding playing with it at the range (even with low power Luger ammo) and just leave the puppy on the wall where it graces my other German collectables.

You also mentioned a Mauser frame - can you expand on that and how you established that? Also, how does one establish the furniture & leather are reproduction?

I would be happy to PM to on the serial number placements you asked for. I just thought it woulld be less than prudent to broadcast numbers in public pursuant to my growing paranoia of government regulatory nonsense which would, effectively, publically 'register' the toy with the nazi wannabes in DC... Email me if you want that photo spread & thanx again. RC

[GWA]

[quote=Phoenixpwb]

GWA: This is interesting info. Should I assume it's related to the weapon's service in the German Wehrmacht before touring Asia? Where might I find info on the articulated Regiment?

The style of the unit mark is from the Imperial era. The Reichswehr used a different system and the Wehrmacht didn't mark theire weapons in this manner at all.

You also mentioned a Mauser frame - can you expand on that and how you established that? Also, how does one establish the furniture & leather are reproduction?

The Thai markings on the back of the frame would lead one to believe that the frame was manufactured in 1936, thus Mauser. A good quality close-up shot of the front of the frame just below the barrel with both barrel serial number and frame serial number visible would be most helpful. I wouldn't worry about the feds and your serial number, hell they already have your ssn.

As to the stock and leather, your stock is not made of walnut but rather some light soft wood. All German made luger stocks were a European walnut. The construction of the holster and attaching straps does not follow the German sattlers' form and the materials are wrong. The stitching on your outfit appears to be with either a cotton or synthetic fibre. The Germans used flax(linen) thread also stitching patterns are wrong. I also suspect that the leather may be neither cow nor pig which are the only hides used by German sattlers for artillery holsters.