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**Douglas Jr.** · 02-09-2006, 05:29 AM

Hi,

I think that it is important to know that officers in the Wehrmacht had freedom to choose their own sidearm. Private pistols were very common during those days (in fact this was a pratice that dates from the Imperial Army). That******180;s why there are so many of these pistol captured during the war that do not bear the Waffenamt stamps. At the same time, there are even some WWI or 20******180;s guns that were carried through the WWII, as the Mauser Model 1914, Sauer Model 1913 and the Ortgies, just to mention a few.

On the other hand, there were, of course, some pistols that were oficially purchased by the Wehrmacht, bearing the Armed Forces stamps. I know that both Walther pistols were a favorite in the Luftwaffe, mainly among the flying crews. Some PPK (I think around 20,000) were bought by the NSDAP and could be purchased by party******180;s leaders (those bear the RZM******180;s stamp).

The Mauser HSc was purchased in some number by the Kriegsmarine, but some were also sent to the LW (the Brillantentr******228;ger Walter Nowotny carried one). And b sure that both Walther pistols as well as the HSc and the Sauer saw extensive use in the Heer.

In regard of the Polizei pistols, they usually marked their pistols with specific codes. During the Pre-III Reich period they used to mark the unit in the guns and, during the nazi period, marked the guns with a Eagle over the "L" (and other letter that I can******180;t remember right now

).

But what you need to have in mind is that the issued of this pistols wasn******180;t follow any systematic criteria, as far as I know. Maybe the others add something more or correct me, if I wrote something wrong (I wrote this by memory).

Wishes,

Douglas.

**Matt Weber** · 02-09-2006, 06:00 AM

Good questions!

First off, Both the Sauer 38 and Walther PP/PPk continued to be produced after WWII as well as the Mauser HSc.

It's funny you brought this up, because about 3 or 4 years ago, I wrote an article for Guns and Ammo on this very same topic! I titled it "German Small SLPs of WWII." In it, I compaired the Walther PPk, the Sauer 38h, and the Mauser HSc. I compaired them in 6 different catagories, and gave them an overall score.
It was a great article, but unfortunately the magazine never published it?

I can tell you that in my final score the Sauer narrowly edged out the Walther, with the HSc coming in 3rd place. It was a very close score though. All three were very good designs, and all 3 were way ahead of thier time in my opinion.

As for who used these, well, just about everyone! Markings confirm that the Army, Kriegsmarine, Police, NSDAP, SA, and SS purchased these pistols! I have seen photographic evidence of the same for all three pistols!

As douglas mentioned, Nowotny carried a Mauser HSc. Joseph "Sepp" Dietrick carried a PPk. I believe Hartmann carried a Sauer, but I've also read books, that he carried a Browning 1922, so I'm 100% sure on what he carried? I talked with a Luftwaffe paratrooper vet, who said he carried a Sauer 38, and that he liked the Sauer.

Who had the most of them? Well, most likely the Army becuase of it's size. Second would probably be the Luftwaffe, then Police, then Kriegsmarine, SS, NSDAP, & SA. The SS and SA ones are really hard to find, and there are other scarce variations too, like the NSKK version of the PP. I currently know where there is an NSKK PP, and also an SS PPk for sale!

Which one is the better pistol? Well, that probably is a personal decision. All three are great pistols in my opinion. If I had to go into combat, and was give a choice of these three pistols, I would probably choose the Sauer 38 first. Becuase I like solid backstrap, it fits me (personally) better in my hand, I've personally never had a problem with one, and it's accuracy is excellent!

Matt

**P08** · 02-09-2006, 07:15 AM

Thank you very much to both of you for extensive answers. This is an exciting subject and after seeing old photos with many different types of compact guns being carried I got interested in it.

I thought that these 2 pistol models were so "official" that they were systematically issued through Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe etc. But I can understand that this is only partly the case. WaA stamped specimens are somewhat rare then?

Matt, Funny how you wrote an article on this very subject. The fact that the magazine didn't use it doesn't have to be an indication of them not liking it. Maybe it just didn't fit in with their marketing at the time (there are people who complain over articles with old guns). But I'm sure people on this forum would be delighted to read the article. I would.

I have read that the Mauser HSC wasn't among the most reliable guns and that it was somewhat fragile. The Sauer 38H has been described on this forum for having a fragile safety system that is prone to breaking? But the question is if they actually USED the safety during the war? If not used it won't break I guess?

Does the Sauer have an external hammer like the Walthers?

How do the models compare regarding number of rounds in the magazine?

**Douglas Jr.** · 02-09-2006, 09:08 AM

Does the Sauer have an external hammer like the Walthers?

No, it doesn´t. But it has a very nice decocking lever system, which is still used in the current prodution of SIG-Sauer pistols. I never heard anything related to its safety system as fragile

I always thought that it was its plastic grips that broke very easily.

@ Matt: you could put your article in the Firearms section of the site! I´m sure we´d love it!

Douglas.

**Matt Weber** · 02-09-2006, 10:48 AM

Thanks guys! I would love to put the article on here, but I still plan on selling it for someone to publish. I was thinking of taking it to Shotgun News, or Gun List, since they both often have articles on older guns like these from WWII.
I loved thier article they had on the MP38, and also the Johnson rifle. I think they might appreciate it more than the popular magazines will.

As for your further questions, I never heard of the HSc as being un-reliable? I personally have never had a problem with any of my HScs.
The HSc has an expose hammer, double action trigger, and self loading/cocking mechanism when you insert a fresh magazine. The man to ask on this would be Peter (hochandler). He is an HSc expert!

As for the Sauer, I've never heard of it having a fragile safety either. The trigger mechanism is somewhat fragile though, and I have had one Sauer trigger break on me.
The Suaer 38 has an internal hammer, loaded chamber indicator, double action trigger, and cocking/de-cocking lever. The late war grips are very brittle, and crack easily. Earlier grips hold up much better.

The Walther PPk, has an exposed hammer, double action trigger, and loaded chamber indicator.

All three are straight blow-back designs, and all three hold the same number of rounds.

**P08** · 02-10-2006, 03:18 AM

Thanks, I feel better informed now. Basically these 3 competitors are rather equal in performance and setup it seems. I still prefer an external hammer over an internal.

Maybe the rumors I've heard on the HSC are completely unfair. It's a neat little design anyway. I noticed that the HSC is shorter than the 38H/PP. It's the same as a PPk.

I read a German gun magazine that sometimes have very good articles on historic weapons. Still some people write the magazine telling them how they want to hear about brand new guns only

Luckily we are many who enjoy reading about Mosin M44's, MP40s, K98's, Garands etc. If there were a magazine only about historic weapons I might switch to that.

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