Captured Japanese Rifle Question?

[RayG]

I recently purchased this Japanese rifle. The rifle was taken from a dead soldier in a bunker after he was killed by a flame thrower. The fellow I bought it from, whom I know, said the veteran who brought it back had given it to his brother before he died. His brother then also passed away and his widow gave it to the fellow I bought it from to get it out of the house. The fellow I purchased it from provided me with this information in writing however he doesn't have any island name or unit information as he got it from brother's widow not the veteran. The stock is charred in several places as shown in the photos and the burn marks are consistent with the damage that would have been caused by a gun exposed to a liquid flame spray splatter from a flame thrower being limited to small areas on different sides of the gun.
It’s still in untouched issued state with the metal still in about 98% plus condition and all the numbers on the rifle match. It has a nice original sling and original bi-pod. When the gun is shaken small grains of sand come out. I will not attempt to clean this out.
There is a small piece of cloth hand sewn on the sling with Japanese writing on it. Does anyone know what it says or where I can find out, Ray

[RayG]

[RayG]

A little better photo of the writing

[JaimeH]

Nice piece, the fact it still has the "mum" on it would validate it as being a vet bring-back. It's also pretty rare to find one with the bipod and an original sling still attached. I also see the anti aircraft wings are still intact.

[KenT]

Hello,
I am Japanese, interested in third Reich guns and don't know much about guns of my own country, but can read it for you.
Four letters on right are numbers. From top, 0(or a Japanese letter), 5, 9, 5, probably indicating rifle serial number.
Three letters on left show name of the last owner, I think. Top two are family name, reads "Hirano". I think there is forth letter missing, can't read his first name (In Japanese, family name comes first). Could be "Yoshiaki" or "Takaaki" or "Kozo" or ...I don't know.
Please do take care of this rifle.
Regards,
Ken

[Doug See]

Ray,
This is a great piece. Thanks for posting it. The mum on the receiver is untouched, another indication this was brought back as war souvenir prior to the surrender. The sling is probably worth as much as the rifle. I'll try to look up the serial number for you so we can approximate when it was made.

[RayG]

Thank you very much Ken for the translation. Also Doug will be looking forward to the mfg date. I have been told it may be a fairly early rifle. Made some time around 1939-41. Ray

[Matt Weber]

Great piece Ray! I love it! The fact that this gun has the burn markings from the flame thrower adds to this guns charachter!

Yes, I would guess that this is an early war gun since it still has all the "gadgets", such as the anti-aircraft sights, the bipod, and others.

Late war Japanese guns had wooden buttplates, very crude sights that were just a notch welded onto the reciever, and they didn't have the bipod or even a bayonet lug. Also many of the last ditch Japanese (called the "substitute 99"), didn't even have serial numbers! The only markings that they had was the Imperial mum!

Matt

[fergmacleod]

mum?

Guys,

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 'mum', as mentioned in the earlier posts?
Also, do these Japanese rifles have any cash value? I have a neighbor with a similar rifle that he bought home from Japan in 1947, and he has asked me if its worth anything.

Thanks,

Fergus.

[Ralph A]

Chrysanthemum,

The symbol of the Emperor. They filed them off the receiver before surrendering the weapons.

[Matt Weber]

Ralph is correct. The "mum" (short for chrysathinum, not sure on spelling?) is a flower of course, and was the symbol for the Japanese Imperial family. To the Japanese people, and soldiers, the Emporer was God. The "mum" mark on the rifles of the military soldiers, ment that this rifle was a gift from God.

Before surrendering to the Americans, the Japanese military leaders ordered all thier soldiers to remove the marking of the Imperial family before surrendering thier rifles. In this way, the rifle had no meaning to them any longer.
To save humiliation to the Emporer, Gerneral MacAuther ordered US GIs to do the same with their "war trophies" that they had captured. Of course not all GIs did this. This is what Ray has!

Matt

PS- Fergus, I'm sure your friends' rifle is worth something. Depending on what model, year, and above all, Condition it is in! Would need much more info, to determine accurately though.

[Doug See]

Ray,
Sorry I'm so late getting back on this.

Your Type 99 rifle was made at the Nagoya Arsenal (located in Nagoya on the souther coast of Honshu)and was in the second series (out or 12) of production. Production ran from 1939 to 1945. I don't have access to more detailed references on series dates, but the second series mark (the square inside the circle) would date it around 1940, maybe as early as 1939.

[RayG]

Thanks Doug for the info, Ray

[fergmacleod]

help......continued

I just went and inspected my neighbors Japanese rifle that was mentioned earlier in this thread.
I'm sorry that I don't have the technology to post pictures here, but here goes;
It appears to be a type 99 carbine. The 'mum' has been filed-off and the rear sight is the same as the rifle pictured by Ray G. The butt plate is metal, and the cleaning rod is about four inches long (!) The number 40104 is preceeded by a T on its side inside a circle, and followed with what looks like an 8 inside a circle. There are a few Japanese charecters on the top of the reciever, but I cannot reproduce them here.

Thanks in advance for any information

Fergus.

[Matt Weber]

Fergus,

The 3 circles indicates that the rifle was produced at the Nagoya arsenal (same as Rays' here!). The "Mum" is ground off, so either the Japanese did this before surrendering, or a GI actually obeyed his orders to do so! (must be a brown noser! Like a 2nd LT. or something? )

The Japanese characters on the top of the reciever (like Rays), will most likely indicate the date I believe. (not sure on this, as most Japanese pistols have the date in numerical codes).

The other numbers on the side of the reciever is the serial number.

Not sure what these type 99 rifles are selling for right now. Perhaps someone else can help?

Matt