Dural Frame Walther PP question

[Joe N]

I have just bought a Walther PP pistol manufactured around 1942. A Gentleman on another forum told me to check if the PP has a lightweight "Dural" frame. Now I own several P08s and P38s, but I have not had many experiences with Pp pistols. What do I look for? Can I tell if it is a Dural frame by pics, or must I compare the weight with another PP? Thanks once again Gentlemen,
joe

[JamesJ]

Dissassemble the pistol, seperating the slide from the frame, and remove the magazine. Place a magnet, or anything magnetic like a refrigerator magnet or shop tool, to the frame. Does the magnet/tool stick to the frame? If yes, it's a steel frame not alloy. Alloy is non-magnetic.
After you've owned a few pistols with alloy frames you can pick up the pistol and notice the difference easily (weight and appearence). As the finish wears you'll notice the alloy frames shine brighter in the wear places than steel. Alloy doesn't rust. You'll see the difference in the finishes. Alloy doesn't blue or parkerize (or phosphate). Alloy frames are plated or painted. Alloy frames will never match the color/texture/surface finish of the parkerized components of the rest of the pistol.
That's it in a nutshell. Good luck on whichever you were hoping for.

[Joe N]

Thanks James very much!

Dissassemble the pistol, seperating the slide from the frame, and remove the magazine. Place a magnet, or anything magnetic like a refrigerator magnet or shop tool, to the frame. Does the magnet/tool stick to the frame? If yes, it's a steel frame not alloy. Alloy is non-magnetic.
After you've owned a few pistols with alloy frames you can pick up the pistol and notice the difference easily (weight and appearence). As the finish wears you'll notice the alloy frames shine brighter in the wear places than steel. Alloy doesn't rust. You'll see the difference in the finishes. Alloy doesn't blue or parkerize (or phosphate). Alloy frames are plated or painted. Alloy frames will never match the color/texture/surface finish of the parkerized components of the rest of the pistol.
That's it in a nutshell. Good luck on whichever you were hoping for.

[ramon]

The other tell tale feature of the alloy frame PP is weight. Just hefting it, one will notice a difference. Also, in taking the pistol down, the alloy frame can get dinged up at the rear contact point where the slide and frame contact. Care needs to be exercised when handling an alloy framed pistol as the alloy doesn't resist the dinging that steel to steel slide and frame can.

Ramon

[Frogprince]

The pistol frames were color anodized. Commonly used in the aircraft industry, it is a chemically induced process where a ‘heavy duty’ oxide layer is applied to the aluminum which is then permanently dyed to give it the desired color. In German it’s known as an “eloxiert” finish.

As James stated magnets are a good way to test if you are not familiar with anodized aluminum. And by putting a piece of tape on the end of the magnet - to protect the finish - the difference between the steel slide and aluminum frame in magnetic attraction should be enough to tell what is what without having to take the pistol apart. FP

[Matt Weber]

FP is correct! These frames were anodized. I work with aluminum every day, since I am of course, an A&P Technician!
You can spot these frames just by looking at the anodized finish on them.

If you don't know what you're looking at, then takes James' advise, and use a magnet on the frame.

Matt

[Joe N]

thanks Gentlemen, it is in fact a dural framed
pp, handling one now I can clearly see what you all refer to.

[Von Hoth]

The pistol frames were color anodized. Commonly used in the aircraft industry, it is a chemically induced process where a ‘heavy duty’ oxide layer is applied to the aluminum which is then permanently dyed to give it the desired color. In German it’s known as an “eloxiert” finish.

As James stated magnets are a good way to test if you are not familiar with anodized aluminum. And by putting a piece of tape on the end of the magnet - to protect the finish - the difference between the steel slide and aluminum frame in magnetic attraction should be enough to tell what is what without having to take the pistol apart. FP

according to Rankin and/or Dieter if I'm not mistaken. they were also Laquered and not just anodized.

could someone post pictures of what the difference would look like?

[ottomaton]

In case anybody reading this thread doesn't know, 'dural' is duraluminium.

Duralumin (also called duraluminum, duraluminium or dural) is the name of one of the earliest types of age-hardenable aluminium alloys. The main alloying constituents are copper, manganese and magnesium. A commonly used modern equivalent of this alloy type is AA2024, which contains (in wt.%) 4.4% copper, 1.5% magnesium and 0.6% manganese. Typical yield strength is 450 MPa, with variations depending on the composition and temper.

Duralumin was developed by the German metallurgist Alfred Wilm at Dürener Metallwerke Aktien Gesellschaft. In 1903, Wilm discovered that after quenching, an aluminium alloy containing 4% Cu would slowly harden when left at room temperature for several days. Further improvements led to the introduction of Duralumin in 1909. The name is today obsolete, and mainly used in popular science to describe the Al-Cu alloy system, or 2000 series as designated by the Aluminum Association.

Its first use was rigid airship frames. Its composition and heat-treatment were a wartime secret. With this new rip-resistant mixture, duralumin quickly spread throughout the aircraft industry in the early 1930s, where it was well suited to the new monocoque construction techniques that were being introduced at the same time. Duralumin also is popular for use in precision tools such as levels because of its light weight and strength.

Although the addition of copper improves strength, it also makes these alloys susceptible to corrosion. For sheet products, corrosion resistance can be greatly enhanced by metallurgical bonding of a high-purity aluminium surface layer. These sheets are referred to as Alclad, and are commonly used by the aircraft industry.