Erma EMP 9mm SMG

[Mattie]

Hi guys,

I got hand on a new weapon. An Erma EMP.
The Erma EMP is a blowback submachinegun with a 32-round box magazine (double fed) with a semi or full automatic selection lever. the bolt handle is on the right hand side of the receiver. The weapon weighs 4,2kg empty and has matching numbers and a beautiful oak stock. The weapon is marked 3563 and 6675, and these two numbers are stamped all over the weapon.

The barrel looks much like the ones found on the MP38. Very solid and durable, of better quality then those of the MP40s.

I got it for 700 USD and it is a deac. It has a ladder sight ranging from 0-1000 metres (like the Mauser C96 type ladder sight).

It is a original, with a brown leater sling unmarked.
The stock is marked 12 and the buttplate is marked 12/5 and a little eagle is stamped over the 12/5. Further more it has a death's head stamped on the buttplate. That's all.

Please you comments and questions. I'm curious if i have paid the right price and what kind of weapon the EMP is in the eyes of priced collectors among this forum.

Thanks,

[Steiner]

Hi,

From who did you bought it?

Mehr sein als scheinen

[JoeW]

EMP?

You are describing a very strange EMP. The barrel of the EMP was within a ventilated handguard. And you describe a barrel like an MP38/40. With a wood stock, are you sure you are not desribing an MP41? The EMP had a barrel/handguard somewhat like the MP28. The EMP also used the 20 round magazine. The MP41 used a thin larger 32 round magazine. What weapon do you have?

[Matt Weber]

Also the Erma EMP had a forward pistol grip, and the magazine was loaded from the side like the MP28. I heard that this gun (like the MP28), was adapted to fit the 32 round snail drum that the artillery luger used as well!
Another SMG that was very simular to the EMP and the MP28, was the MP34, which was designed by Rheinmetall. Most of these were made under licence by Steyr.

This gun can't be an MP41 since he stated that the bolt handle is on the right side, and also Erma didn't make the MP41, only Schmiesser did!

Matt

[JoeW]

EMP

The bolt cocking handle on the MP41 was on the right, just like the MP38/40. It was basically an MP40 in a MP28 stock. Neither the EMP, nor the MP28 ever used the 32 round TM 08 (Trommelmagazine 08/snail drum).That magazine was phased out of service with the MP18I in favor of the stick magazine.

[Matt Weber]

Joe,

I have never seen an MP40 or MP41 with the cocking handle on the right side!!?!?!?!?!??!?!? They are always on the left!
If you have one with a cocking handle on the right side, please post pics!

I know what an MP41 is. I have fired one once. It is an MP40 with a wooden stock, and it also has selective fire! Where the MP40 fires only in full auto.

Both the Bergman MP18 and MP28 had an adaptor that was shaped at an angle and allowed you to put in the 32 round snail drum magazine. I was told that the EMP could use this as well, but haven't seen it. My mistake.

Matt

[JoeW]

EMP

Matt, I'm sorry, I think my brain was operating in a backasswards function. Of course the MP41 had the handle on the left, as it was a MP40 mechanism in a MP28 stock/trigger mechanism. But I thought the MP18 was the only one to use the snail drum. An adaptor was fitted on the straight body of the snail drum which allowed the snail drum to slide in a sit at a slightly forward angle. The drums proved troublesome and the stick magazine was produced which required reworking the magazine housing. The MP28 corrected the magazine problem by allowing only a stick mag. I will check a couple of references to be sure.

[Matt Weber]

Joe,
I think you are correct. It was only used in the MP18. I must have been thinking otherwise. For some reason I remembered someone told me that the EMP could use it as well, but as I stated earlier, I have never seen this to be true?

Matt

[JoeW]

EMP

I checked my copy of Goetz's book on rifles and machine pistols and found that the orignal design of the the EMP in 1925 featured a 25 round drum magazine. Vollmer changed the design in 1928 to the stick magazine. It seems Schmeisser originally planned on a stick magazine for the MP18I, but was forced to used the TM08 by the German high command. The MP18's were soon modified and the MP28 was specifically designed for the stick magazine at the request of the Inspectorate for Weapons and Equipment in the Reichswehr.

[Matt Weber]

Joe,

That must have been the drum mag that I was thinking of!
Thanks for clarifying that!
It's probably a good thing that the MP28 and EMP didn't use that snail drum anyways, since they didn't work worth a crap!

I may be looking at getting an EMP from Charlie. He has one now that he is getting re-activated! I'll have to see if I can get it approved by congress first!

Matt

[Mattie]

uhh, matt weber you are totally wrong.

the MP41 is called the MP41 Haenel and WAS MADE by Haenel.
It has on the receiver stamped "C.G. Haenel Patent", mine does.

[Matt Weber]

UH Mattie, I guess you obviously don't know that Hugo Schmeisser factory was C.G. Haenel???

He mated an MP28 stock with the reciever, magazine, and telescoping tube of an MP40 to produce the MP41. It also included a selective fire feature. The only other new feature was the rigid attachment of the body to the wooden stock.

Very few MP41s were produced because Hugo Schmeisser was take to court after he infringed on Vollmer's patent by using the latter's telescoping tube in the design. The project was then cancelled.

So of course your MP41 shoud be marked by Haenel! No one else made them!

Matt

[Mattie]

I know what an MP41 is, I have one myselves.
Still you are dead wrong. Haenel isn't Schmeisser's factory. Haenel is C.G Haenel's factory. The only thing C.G Haenel did was producing a weapon designed BY Hugo Schmeisser. Schmeisser had no direct acces in the production or to the plant itself.

Hugo Schmeisser WAS involved in the Schmeisser haenel 6,53 m/m pistols before WW2 broke out.

Still, you can't name the MP41 as the MP41 Schmeisser, because it isn't. You said yourself that it's tubing house is ripped off from Heinrich Vollmer's Vollmer EMP en Erma EMP design. So It isn't actually Schmeissérs gun. It is a MP41 Haenel. I hope I make myself clear and that you realise yourself that you are wrong

[Matt Weber]

I'm sorry Mattie, but you are incorrect. The MP41 was Hugo Schmeissers' idea, and it was produced at Haenel, which was the factory that Schmeisser ran. That's it!

Just curious, but which factory do you think Schmeisser worked at?

Matt

[pitfighter]

Erma EMP magazine?

Sorry to dig up an old thread.
I don't suppose anyone has a lead on an Erma EMP mag, it can be a non-working one, as it is for a dummy?

It's a new one for my little collection, but it was without mag when i found it, and I cannot find mags ANYWHERE!

Comparison pics with the SSRoom MP40 and a dummy MP40.




And a few other toys.


Cheers!

Jesse.