Heer dagger crossguard ID

[fdodge]

I have 2 daggers by Voos with like crossguards, and wanted to know if they are generic B, or attributed to another maker.
Also, both scabbards are 2 screw variety but obviously different from each other.
Comments appreciated.
Frank

[Schlange]

Yes, on the first look they look like generic type B.
But they can laso be Anton Wingan or Herder product.
Left dagger scabbard has IMO strange fittings on crossguard swastika.


Schlange

https://mojalbum.com/schlange88

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=916564

[dr01]

Wow! You have a generic B crossguard with enhanced feathers. Normally enhanced feathers are only seen on early guards and not on generic types. Very rare indeed.

Regards
Danny

[fdodge]

[QUOTE=Schlange;8226766]
Left dagger scabbard has IMO strange fittings on crossguard swastika.


Schlange



Thanks for the input Schlange, but I don't understand the last part.
Frank

[Matt G.]

Like others have said.....Look like to me Type B. The right-hand example looks to have hand enhancing. Neat! The dagger on the left looks like the upper scabbard band is unusually high.

[fdodge]

So the crossguard question has been satisfied, but now my interest has shifted to the scabbard differences.
I photographed the scabbards for your inspection, and though the dagger on the left's upper band is high, the 2 scabbards are obviously of different manufacturers, meaning the bands are completely different (I think what fellow member Schlange was referring to). That scabbard fits so tightly to the blade, it takes a bit of effort to extract the dagger. I'm looking to identify the scabbard makers now, and if they would be correct for an Emil Voos Heer.
I will refer to the daggers as left and right since that's how they were photographed at the beginning of this thread.


These are photos of the scabbard with the high band, left dagger.....

[fdodge]

Photos of scabbard from the dagger on the right with enhanced crossguard.....

[fdodge]

And just for entertainment, a photo showing the locations of maker marks on the blades. The left dagger has it's mark much lower.

[JohnZ]

I don't think that the scabbard band placement is what we are talking about here, I think it is the differing leaf pattern between the two.

J

[fdodge]

I don't think that the scabbard band placement is what we are talking about here, I think it is the differing leaf pattern between the two.

J

Exactly.

[fdodge]

I found another like mine on the right, which has matching hardware throughout, right down to the hand enhanced generic B crossguard. Here's a shot of it's scabbard. So my example on the left has a suspicious scabbard.....

[WW2-Collector]

Frank
I agree generic-B that is an easy ID - I also do not subscribe to the Herder and Wingen generic B look alike crossguards. At this time I believe they are all generic B,s as I have mentioned in past threads on various forums and do not recognize them as types in my army crossguard reference. Also as mentioned very nice to see a enhanced generic B very rare. As far as the screws seems the early slant Voos usually have double flat head screws and the later production has the double flush mount screws. as far as the bands that is just something you have to sample a large pool of to see the similarity's and conformity unfold. The screw configuration and type is the first indicator for me.

[Bulldog]

The dagger on the left looks as though the bottom of the wreath on the crossguard is making contact with the top scabbard band, if it is then this would be stopping the blade sliding all the way into the scabbard and the scabbard throat making contact with the buffer pad inside the crossguard, therefore not sealing the blade from the elements. I would be surprised if the factory would have sold a dagger like this as this was the reason for the buffer pad, or has the buffer pad been flattened so much that any gap between the wreath and top band has been closed.

Russ.

[fdodge]

The scabbard throat makes full contact with the leather washer.

[heers68]

Mr. Dodge.. Nice daggers here! The enhanced B on right is indeed a beauty, I wonder if that dagger has the enhanced pommel seen on many Voos with the B fittings? The scabbard on left is one I have seen before on generic applications and I have not attributed it to a specific maker. The scabbard on right looks like a fairly early Pack by the bands.. (BTW, in my opinion the B generic guard was by far the earlier used compared to the A.. )