Damascus Luft Sword

[The Red Baron]

Has this dagger been discussed previously?

http://www.wwiidaggers.com/33823.htm

I think this one has been on WItty's table for sale at a few Max shows, although its a consignment piece owned by another collector.

[helmuthunter]

Luftwaffe sword looks all ok to me....

[The Red Baron]

Luftwaffe sword looks all ok to me....

The damascus looks good?

[Frogprince]

Has this dagger been discussed previously?

http://www.wwiidaggers.com/33823.htm

I think this one has been on WItty's table for sale at a few Max shows, although its a consignment piece owned by another collector.

If the images are an indicator (usually his are much better) maybe it's because they saw the blade 'up close and personal' ? FP

[The Red Baron]

I think this piece has some issues.

[stratocaster3]

I think this piece has some issues.

WouLd you care to enlighten us?

[The Red Baron]

A collector just asked my opinion and after looking into this it appears this blade was sold with others (just the blades) and put together with luft sword parts. As for the damascus itself, I wish we had better pics.

[Frogprince]

A collector just asked my opinion and after looking into this it appears this blade was sold with others (just the blades) and put together with luft sword parts. As for the damascus itself, I wish we had better pics.

Likewise, some really good closeup pictures I think would help. Using what was available I did not get a good feeling that it even had the wood grain type structure of actual Damascus steel. It seemed more like an artificial or maybe even an East Indian/Pakistani look. Whereas with another one he has you have at least some halfway decent closeups. FP

[stratocaster3]

Thank you RB and FP. I see your point and must agree. Interesting observation regarding the pattern. Does make one pause.

[rob NL]

This type of damast is not pre-45.
The shape of the blade is also wrong.

Wittmann is killing it! The hobby that is haha

[james m]

This type of damast is not pre-45.
The shape of the blade is also wrong.

Wittmann is killing it! The hobby that is haha

Rob: I've had the chance to examine a couple of these in hand and my observations are as follows:
Hand forged Damascus is not formed to the same consistency as the machine made regular blades. There is a variation in the shape due to this and that could account for the irregularity you're seeing. The ones I've handled were somewhat irregular.
I am not familiar with the Damascus pattern on this particular sword but I don't remember it on the other examples I've seen.
Perhaps someone more familiar with this Damascus pattern can comment further.
The Wittmann example pictured does appear to be real Damascus and this is expensive to forge to make a fake.
It will be interesting to see where this goes.
Jim

[Frogprince]

One of the problems is that one of swords has a decent enough set of images that you can make out a lot of the details - but the other set of images for the lower priced sword is relatively useless (IMO). FP

[rob NL]

Rob: I've had the chance to examine a couple of these in hand and my observations are as follows:
Hand forged Damascus is not formed to the same consistency as the machine made regular blades. There is a variation in the shape due to this and that could account for the irregularity you're seeing. The ones I've handled were somewhat irregular.
I am not familiar with the Damascus pattern on this particular sword but I don't remember it on the other examples I've seen.
Perhaps someone more familiar with this Damascus pattern can comment further.
The Wittmann example pictured does appear to be real Damascus and this is expensive to forge to make a fake.
It will be interesting to see where this goes.
Jim

Jim,
When you handled them were they fitted already? Or just the blades?

It very well could be real damast. But not from WW2 era imho.

[rob NL]

One of the problems is that one of swords has a decent enough set of images that you can make out a lot of the details - but the other set of images for the lower priced sword is relatively useless (IMO). FP

Yes, true.
To me very obvious why he does that, better pics would very clearly show that this blade is fake.

The other sword you mention, while the pattern looks nice, I’ve never seen a hole drilled in an damast edged weapon. In a authentic one that is.
In MANY fakes I saw that did happen.
This sword is Solingen made for sure.
But NOT pre-45. Only fakes have holes drilled in them.
I was told why also by an old German damast smith.

[james m]

Rob:
These were complete swords with acquisition stories of course we've all learned to take with a grain of salt.
The blades were beautiful Damascus and I didn't see anything alarming about them at the time. I lost contact with the owners and I don't know the where abouts of these swords today.
I do know that a lot of fake SS sword blades were made up in England during the70s. From what I've been told they were made from original police/SS leftover blade stock and etched at that time. From what I've been told these were a common staple at the shows back then. The last two I ever remember seen were being sold by T Johnson for what they were back in the 90s on his site. I have a loose one of these and if the etching wasn't so dorky it would be hard to tell it was post war. They apparently made multiple examples and I used mine to show a user of a complete sword that his was a recreation.
Jim