Help with navy dagger w/ ivory

[coyotecolo]

Hello guys, I've been offered this Kriegsmarine dagger that has an ivory grip. My question is this, how much of a premium does the ivory grip add to a navy dagger like this?
I have no idea what a dagger with this grip might be worth.Any help would really be appreciated.

[coyotecolo]

more pics

another look

[coyotecolo]

more pics

Any thoughts of this dagger, and what an the ivory grip adds to it's value would be a big help.
Thanks in advance

[Bulldog]

It's a parts dagger, it has an Eickhorn M29 crossguard. Someone has put a buffer pad between the guard and butt plate to make everything fit correctly.

Russ.

[stratocaster3]

I agree with Russ. The grip overlaps the cross guard significantly suggesting that the grip is not original to this dagger. Genuine Kriegsmarine daggers with ivory grips are scarce and was a special order extra cost item. An ivory grip doubled the price of a dagger. Consequently it was fitted carefully by hand. The originals I have fit very nicely with none of the issues this dagger has. The pommel and cross guard are flush with the grip. I've never seen an ivory grip KM dagger with a standard scabbard. They usually have at least the hammered deluxe scabbard as that was cheap relative to the ivory grip. I think what you may have here is an ivory grip from an Imperial Navy 1901 pattern officers dagger that has been fitted to a standard KM dagger in an effort to upgrade it.

[Bulldog]

I agree with Russ. The grip overlaps the cross guard significantly suggesting that the grip is not original to this dagger. Genuine Kriegsmarine daggers with ivory grips are scarce and was a special order extra cost item. An ivory grip doubled the price of a dagger. Consequently it was fitted carefully by hand. The originals I have fit very nicely with none of the issues this dagger has. The pommel and cross guard are flush with the grip. I've never seen an ivory grip KM dagger with a standard scabbard. They usually have at least the hammered deluxe scabbard as that was cheap relative to the ivory grip. I think what you may have here is an ivory grip from an Imperial Navy 1901 pattern officers dagger that has been fitted to a standard KM dagger in an effort to upgrade it.

Good points made there.
Russ.

[coyotecolo]

Navy

Thanks for the quick observations, still would like to learn a little about the value of a grip like this if anybody might have a feel for that.
Thanks again

[Billy G]

Excellent observations about the grip on this dagger gentlemen. While the Germans were far from perfect, we do know that extra-cost items typically show superior detailing & gaps or ill-fitting parts would not be something I believe we would see.

I remember maybe 10 years ago being told that an ivory grip would add roughly $1000-$1500 to the value of a dagger. Obviously it's all subjective to other factors including the dagger model & overall condition of the grip & dagger. Assuming the grip was original to the dagger, I would say $1000 +/- would be a fair estimate, factoring in today's market.

[stratocaster3]

Thanks for the quick observations, still would like to learn a little about the value of a grip like this if anybody might have a feel for that.
Thanks again

An original ivory gripped KM in outstanding condition with a hammered scabbard runs $3000. If it has a deluxe custom hand chased scabbard you can add easily another $2000. These are typical dealer prices and I might be a bit light at that. Specifically I have seen Imperial Navy grips selling between $600-$900 depending on condition. I am convinced that is what is on the dagger you are looking at.
Rick

[coyotecolo]

navy

Thanks so much guys, you nailed exactly what I was hoping for, regarding condition and value of the grip, with and without the dagger (assuming it was all original).
Your expertise is truly priceless.

[coyotecolo]

navy

One more thing.... The owner of this dagger does not believe there is any difference between an Eickhorn crossguard, and any other crossguard, and he can't see any difference when comparing daggers online.
Could you give an explanation of the differences, and if possible, a side by side comparison. They might look the same to the average guy, who doesn't know what to look for. But you guys can take one quick glance, and can see the minute differences, it would help to explain how an Eickhorn crossguard is different.
Thanks again

[Bulldog]

[QUOTE=coyotecolo;8042735]One more thing.... The owner of this dagger does not believe there is any difference between an Eickhorn crossguard, and any other crossguard, and he can't see any difference when comparing daggers online.

There are subtle differences but the BIG difference between an Eickhorn and Holler guard is the size of the cowls at the end of each arm, Holler's are much larger but the curved segments making up the cowls are narrower and the nipple ends are also bigger. The outer edges of the Holler centre block border next to the acanthus leaves and their borders has a small step/edge whereas Eickhorn's runs smoother from the centre block onto the acanthus leaf border. The O-ring on the T-bar of the anchor (bottom left corner of the centre block) of Holler's has what looks like an interlocking rope whereas Eickhorn's has an interlocking ring/link.

Russ.

[Bulldog]

I'm not a paid member so cannot post pics, perhaps someone else could show these two guards side by side, it is easy to see the difference in the size of the cowls.

Russ.

[nickn]

Does Canada have different rules on the sale of ivory to the us and the uk?

[stratocaster3]

Does Canada have different rules on the sale of ivory to the us and the uk?

I doubt it. They are al signatories of the CITES regulations.