Heer Dagger opinion

[Mac 66]

Origional factory white grips turned various shades of orange & red with time ?

why are there still white grips the have not changed colour & still white ?

any evidence of this colour change claim apart from a photo ?

[Bulldog]

Origional factory white grips turned various shades of orange & red with time ?

Shown by grips with different shades of colour from having one side faced down for a long period of time and also where a portapee has been for a long time.

why are there still white grips the have not changed colour & still white ?

Plaster filled celuloid wrapped which remains white/cream and artificial ivory.

any evidence of this colour change claim apart from a photo ?

Evidence explained in my first answer.

Russ.

[Mac 66]

Evidence explained in my first answer.

Russ.

Ok so the white grips tthat have not turned orange ect are not made from Trolon but instead made from plaster which does not change colour with UV light ?

[Bulldog]

Ok so the white grips tthat have not turned orange ect are not made from Trolon but instead made from plaster which does not change colour with UV light ?

It appears so, this is also seen with all navy dagger grips, the solid Trolon ones are now colored and the wooden core celluloid wrapped ones have remained white/cream. Plaster army grips are plaster filled with a celluloid wrap like the wooden cored navy grips.

Russ.

[Mac 66]

It appears so, this is also seen with all navy dagger grips, the solid Trolon ones are now colored and the wooden core celluloid wrapped ones have remained white/cream. Plaster army grips are plaster filled with a celluloid wrap like the wooden cored navy grips.

Russ.

Thanks Russ

[Mac 66]

Here, what about the orange glass grips, i suppose they were white as well to start with then turned orange ?, or is this talk of changing colour a lot of bull ?

[Bulldog]

Here, what about the orange glass grips, i suppose they were white as well to start with then turned orange ?, or is this talk of changing colour a lot of bull ?

Not very often seen (compared to others) artificial amber as far as i know. It might be bull but until someone comes up with another answer observations are all we have to go on.

Russ

[stratocaster3]

Here, what about the orange glass grips, i suppose they were white as well to start with then turned orange ?, or is this talk of changing colour a lot of bull ?

I don’t subscribe to the all white theory without further evidence. We must include Luft and Navy grips in making our observations as the same materials were used. Yes there is darkening of colors with the degree depending on the chemical stability of the base material and environmental conditions it saw in its life. I received an orange gripped KM dagger with a large chip (down to the blade tang) in the grip which occurred in shipping and the material was the same color throughout with the exception of a very thin rind I would guess only a few microns in thickness, at the surface that was slightly darker. Some white grips never changed color because the base material was not the same as the colored grips but was casein plastic. The glass grips of course aren't really glass but some other form of “resin” that is harder and more prone to chipping. We see a spectrum of colors ranging from lemon yellow to reddish brown. However, has anyone seen a grip color between white and yellow that is the same material?

[Bulldog]

However, has anyone seen a grip color between white and yellow that is the same material?

I have seen very pale yellow grips, perhaps too much time has passed for any white-yellow ones to still remain. If only this most basic of questions had been asked decades ago to the factory owners or workers when they were still around.

Russ.

[spacey]

I have seen very pale yellow grips, perhaps too much time has passed for any white-yellow ones to still remain. If only this most basic of questions had been asked decades ago to the factory owners or workers when they were still around.

Russ.

All interesting replies.
Thank you!

[GaryMJ]

I believe the only true white grips are the Galalith, Ivory and Celluloid over wood/plaster. As mentioned previously, I also have Heer, Luft & Kriegs daggers with dark orange on the obverse and dark yellow on the reverse which were probably hung in a pub during their lives...

A fiend of mine who specialises in Heer daggers took a broken Trolon grip which was dark orange and broke it open to reveal the white Trolon base material. He left a broken piece in the sun and with a couple of months had also started to darken.

There may be some truth to the white grip theory with the exception of amber/glass grips which I'm certain must have been yellow or orange from the outset.

Red

[Mac 66]

Thanks Red for this valuable info & pix

good to see the broken Trolon orange grip is white inside !!



Regards Mac 66.

[spacey]

I believe the only true white grips are the Galalith, Ivory and Celluloid over wood/plaster. As mentioned previously, I also have Heer, Luft & Kriegs daggers with dark orange on the obverse and dark yellow on the reverse which were probably hung in a pub during their lives...

A fiend of mine who specialises in Heer daggers took a broken Trolon grip which was dark orange and broke it open to reveal the white Trolon base material. He left a broken piece in the sun and with a couple of months had also started to darken.

There may be some truth to the white grip theory with the exception of amber/glass grips which I'm certain must have been yellow or orange from the outset.

Red

Now we're getting somewhere.

Great responses everyone!

This is why I come to W-A.

[ROBB]

This one isn’t white . Rob

[no1canuck]

Nice picture. Probably orange I would think. No doubt in my mind there were original orange grips.

Here is a link that really shows how light and time can affect a dagger grip.

https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=23950

Steve