Gebr. Heller SA Dagger

[dasboot2011]

Hi all,

So I have been trying to collect sa daggers locally, primarily earlier non-parts decent shape etc. Up to 6 in the last year and picked up this odd ball, which initially I almost passed on but was cheap....

It is marked just Gebr. Heller which from what I have read is a sign that it is a contract blade used by Heller. The fittings, fitment, and all look good. What is odd to me though is the motto. It is thinner and pimplier than my other daggers, I posted it alongside a Haenel I have, which ironically lacks crossgraining in the pic due to my excessive oil and lighting... Anyways, I have also read that these are also traits common with Heller contract SAs. Any truth to that or perhaps a fake blade?

[dasboot2011]

Mo.

[dasboot2011]

Mottos occupy same length of blade, only difference is width of characters.

[addyfie]

as far as i know these hellers came with a super dark pimpled motto if i can find a pic of mine i will post now

adam

[nickn]

Artificially darker to hide the poor etch?
I think the blade is fine

[ivbaust]

There were 2 manufacturers with the identical name “Gebrüder Heller” (Heller Brothers).

1) Gebrüder Heller GmbH Messer- und Kugelfabrik (Heller Brothers LLC Knife and Bullet Factory). This company was located in “Marienthal”. Its logo is a single line with their name „Gebr. Heller“ etched vertically to the blade. It manufactured bayonets and received in WW2 the S code „S/178“ and later the letter code „csr“. According to Anthony Carter it produced also army and airforce daggers as well as SA service daggers. It presumably was assigned the RZM number M7/50.

2) Gebrüder Heller Bohrerfabrik (Heller Brothers Drill Factory). This company was located in “Schmalkalden”. Its logo is an anchor surrounded by the name „Gebrüder Heller Schmalkalden“ in a double circle. This maker produced regular SA service daggers (large makers mark) and SA honor daggers with the Röhm dedication (smaller makers mark closer to the cross guard)

[ivbaust]

Gebr. Heller from Marienthal is known for its blurry, deep and dark acid etched motto.

[ivbaust]

It seems that the employees of this company left the blades too long in the acid bath. The letters of the motto and the makers mark are very deep and „thick“ acid etched.

[ivbaust]

Here’s another example

[ivbaust]

On this example only the motto is thick and deep acid etched.

[dasboot2011]

There were 2 manufacturers with the identical name “Gebrüder Heller” (Heller Brothers).

1) Gebrüder Heller GmbH Messer- und Kugelfabrik (Heller Brothers LLC Knife and Bullet Factory). This company was located in “Marienthal”. Its logo is a single line with their name „Gebr. Heller“ etched vertically to the blade. It manufactured bayonets and received in WW2 the S code „S/178“ and later the letter code „csr“. According to Anthony Carter it produced also army and airforce daggers as well as SA service daggers. It presumably was assigned the RZM number M7/50.

2) Gebrüder Heller Bohrerfabrik (Heller Brothers Drill Factory). This company was located in “Schmalkalden”. Its logo is an anchor surrounded by the name „Gebrüder Heller Schmalkalden“ in a double circle. This maker produced regular SA service daggers (large makers mark) and SA honor daggers with the Röhm dedication (smaller makers mark closer to the cross guard)

Thank you for all of the pictures and this information. I did not realize that there were two different firms with identical names.

[Frogprince]

Judging by the lack of physical specimens “Heller - Marienthal” never made any S. 84/98 bayonets with the “csr” letter code. Terminating their manufacture before the code was assigned, it may have been engaged in making some other kinds of items for the Wehrmacht. As for the motto on the thread starter it looks to me like it might have been plated over an improperly prepared surface that now has the plating falling off in places? With the Caveat of course being that it’s just my impression from the photos - versus ’in hand’. FP

[Br. James]

Both of the "Gebrüder Heller" cutlery firms were apparently prolific in terms of the output of early SA Standard Service Daggers: the firm in Schmalkalden is rated #3 on McSARR while the Marienthal firm is rated #4.

Br. James

[negative1]

That dagger looks just like one that I missed in Ohio a few months back. If it's not the same it is a good twin.

[Mac 66]

Monday morning job that one


Rough as F....