clemen & jung KM dagger opinions please

[NOR_collector]

Hi.

If I have done some reading on KM daggers and if I understand correctly, this clemen & jung maker mark is considered to be postwar by some collectors and late war by some collectors?

What is your opinions on this dagger?

Thanks.

Regards,
André

[NOR_collector]

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[NOR_collector]

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[NOR_collector]

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[NOR_collector]

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[NOR_collector]

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[Schlange]

IMO part dagger.


Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/album

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=916564

[Billy G]

Some collectors immediately discard KM daggers with this large C&J mark but there are some examples with the etched logo that are period. There are also some that were assembled postwar. I believe each piece needs to be taken on its own attributes, according to its own fit & finish.

I saw one of these a year ago that was right as rain along with a salty knot in period tie. The shame of it is a lot of collectors are afraid to touch one.

I'll find my pics of that one & compare the two.

[nickn]

Some collectors immediately discard KM daggers with this large C&J mark but there are some examples with the etched logo that are period. There are also some that were assembled postwar. I believe each piece needs to be taken on its own attributes, according to its own fit & finish.

I saw one of these a year ago that was right as rain along with a salty knot in period tie. The shame of it is a lot of collectors are afraid to touch one.

I'll find my pics of that one & compare the two.

I agree and have bought 2 out of vets estates
I have the missing button if you are interested

[Serge M.]

Some collectors immediately discard KM daggers with this large C&J mark but there are some examples with the etched logo that are period. There are also some that were assembled postwar. I believe each piece needs to be taken on its own attributes, according to its own fit & finish.

I saw one of these a year ago that was right as rain along with a salty knot in period tie. The shame of it is a lot of collectors are afraid to touch one.

Billy, as usual, is correct on these. The issue is that there was a time where all of these were considered post war. A few sharpies were buying good daggers for the repro price, the problem is today it's a tough sell IMO.

I believe I recall hearing way back that a horde of original blades were found Post war and assembled with post war parts, and that ruined it for the period assembled dagger, which there are not many examples of today.

[NOR_collector]

Thank you for all the replies. I really appreciate all your help.

I disassemble the dagger and I hope that you can get more info out of this.
It has the same number on the crossguard as it has on the blade. Nr 491

Regards,
André

[NOR_collector]

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[Dr.Vet]

Hi Andre,
Most of the known Clemen & Jung originals (stamped TM on both sides) seems to be M29 models with a replacement pommels. It is highly possible that Clemen & Jung started using an acid etched logo just before and during the war time.
Unfortunately, we see a lot of postwar production with etched logo. Not only Clemen & Jung. Horster or Alcoso logo on postwar production do not determine that every dagger with this type of logo is fake.

Regards
Jakub

[NOR_collector]

I sent e-mail to Wittmann with these pictures and also of the scabbard. Here is the reply that I got from him:

Thank you for the email and the pictures of your Clemen & Jung Naval dirk. Yes, this dirk is original. If you have a copy of my Naval Book, on Pages 308 and 309, I show an identical dirk. The pommel, cross guard and "drilled" style release button are identical to the book piece, as is the scabbard. The acanthus leaves on these scabbards are different from other brands, and easy to identify as C & J.

[Bulldog]

Clemen & Jung used this same maker mark during the period and on their post war reproductions so its very hard to determine a period example from a post war one. Because Clemen & Jung did not produce many navy daggers they used generic fittings. The pommel and crossguard (similar if not the same as the crossguard on post war examples) are the same as seen on Weyersbergs, also with a drilled release button, but did Clemen & Jung use the same fittings as Weyersberg ? possibly as the one in Wittmanns book is the same. The problems i'm seeing with this dagger are (it could be the lighting for the pic) a brighter looking finish to the crossguard than the pommel and scabbard, the buffer pad looks like a replacement, you can see the cuts around the edges. The scabbard bands (if there the same as the ones on the scabbard Wittmann points to in his book) are fit to all generic M38 scabbards and can be seen on Horster, Puma, Weyersberg, Luneschloss, etc etc etc. It could, i cannot say for certain, be that the crossguard and blade are from a post war reproduction and the pommel and scabbard are period. JMO.

Russ.