Heer dagger or railway dagger?? Black grip

[Kenny1309]

Hello all,

I would kike to hear abd find out more about this dagger its an eickhorn made blade, looks like a heer dagger but has a black grip, after a little search i found it might be a rail way dagger but what do you guys think about it. It definalty isn't painted as some chips are miasing and same collor is under that.

Thanks

[Frogprince]

The first known reference to the suppposed 1st model Railway daggers is straight out of Atwood's book, which is an interesting combination of fake and real daggers and information. That said, no period documention suppports the existence of such a dagger. FP

[Billy G]

There are those that believe in the so-called "1st model Bahnschutz dagger". Among those, Klaas is considered textbook but there are some that also accept Eickhorn as having made this dagger.

[JohnZ]

Yes, B, I have seen Eickhorn 1st Railways on sale before. Not often, true.

I am not sure about these. The Klaas versions do have some unique features to set them apart from Klaas army daggers.

Black grips do show up on occasion on Army, Navy and Luft daggers... why is till a mystery, I think.

John

[Schlange]

IMO Carl Eickhorn Solingen Heer dagger with 3. type crossguard. Im not shure about dagger handle - maybe the first layer of paint has fallen off.


Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/album

[Serge M.]

It is a question that has been debated for many years. Klaas and Eickhorn are not the only ones that are found with a black grip.

Some say; Klaas is the only accepted maker of the 1st model Railroad dagger.

Others say; There were no 1st model Railroad daggers, and original Klaas daggers were painted white over a black trolon grip. Post-war some enterprising individuals stripped the white paint off the grip and called Funeral dagger or 1st Railroad or a Engineers dagger (sometimes the term placed by the seller depending what the buyer needed to fill in his collection).
Same goes for the 2nd Luft dagger.

HOWEVER, pure black gripped Army daggers with a non-Klaas style grip are found on un-played daggers, like your example, and IMHO 100%, but brings up more questions.
I venture to say that if anything is more pure is a dagger that had a black un-painted Trolon originally from the factory, like your Eickhorn example. Interestingly it's easy to tell if you examine closely if a grip was originally black. On your Eickhorn note the glossy finish on the grip. On Klaas grips that had the paint removed you will find a Mat Finish (my belief this was to help the paint adhere better to the surface).

I still don't understand why a Klaas Army dagger with a black grip is considered a 1st Railroad dagger, while other makers are not.
The problem is that there has yet to be found factory documentation for a black grip on a Army dagger. However, there they are.

It is my opinion, that the question cannot be properly answered, because there is no proof of a Railroad designation to any black-gripped Army dagger.
However, we are left of examples that clearly are original black gripped, and sometimes a black painted or grip, by various models as mentioned by Johnny Z.

So what is the answer to what you have there ? Until more information is forthcoming it will stand like Billy mentioned:
"There are those that believe in the so-called "1st model Bahnschutz dagger". Among those, Klaas is considered textbook but there are some that also accept Eickhorn as having made this dagger."

Also, the dealers I spoken to about this issue will only list a Black Gripped Army Klaas as a 1st Railroad. Same goes for the 2nd Model Luftwaffe.
That said, I have in my collection a Black-gripped Army dagger by Seilheimer (dog Logo), and a Black (dark purple) gripped 2nd Luft by Holler, and I don't care what someone calls them, as for me, they are right as rain, and that works for me.

It's JMO, and hope to get more opinions on this subject from you guys. Input from members like Bob I, Paul H. and Eddy S. is encouraged. Veteran collector/dealers who had a lot pass through their hands for decades from finds out of the woodwork.

[Kenny1309]

Thank you verry much guys for your inputs! It seems like its. Still a blurry page aven after over 70 years.. One day we will know!