Chained SS for review

[kpaintner]

Looking at possibly purchasing this one. Would appreciate opinions and letting me know what you see. I like what I am seeing. I have not had it in hand. Seller thinks scabbard has been painted over original anodizing.
Thanks in advance for your remarks!
Kevin

[kpaintner]

Did all type I chained daggers have anodized scabbards?

[kpaintner]

No opinions?

[Larry Lipps]

For certain they did not all have anodized scabbards. Not even sure that I've seen one with an anodized scabbard.

I think the dagger you posted is fine.

[Steve C]

Hi Kevin

I think the scabbard has been repainted possibly post war, it looks to shiny.

The type 1 is a bit misleading because it is later mid war production and not the earlier pre war models that you would think.
My type 1 chained dagger is a painted scabbard with all nickel plated fittings and as 1 screw only on the centre scabbard ring which is correct for painted scabbards.
2 screws are usually for anodised scabbards.

The metal fittings on the rest of the dagger look more like the early solid nickel fittings rather than plated so it could be a mis match, certainly been heavily cleaned.

The chains look like they have a chance of being right but to me don't match the rest of the dagger.

I think you need the 'big boys' to cast their eye over this before you decide to buy, it is not one I would buy.

Regards
Steve C

[Skyline Drive]

For certain they did not all have anodized scabbards. Not even sure that I've seen one with an anodized scabbard.

I think the dagger you posted is fine.

In my experience, most Type I SS chained daggers had blued scabbards. They did have painted scabbards, but there were fewer of these.

[Frogprince]

Not one for me, maybe it's just the imaging but in one of them the blade to cross guard fit looked off, and especially some of the skull links lacked the well defined appearance of a third production series (first nickel plated steel) M1936 dagger. FP

[Larry Lipps]

You'll have to argue with Wittmann. His book says that the Type 1 is the later type and that they came with painted scabbards. I still say I don't ever remember seeing a type 1 with a anodized scabbard. If you have one, post it.

In my experience, most Type I SS chained daggers had blued scabbards. They did have painted scabbards, but there were fewer of these.

Can't argue that it's possible the blade may be polished, and I would also be good to see a reverse photo to see if it has a maker's mark. Obviously a flash was used that makes things look worse than they might be. We need better photos.

I would want to see a clear photo of an individual skull link, a photo of the top clover link to see if the DRGM shows through, the scabbard screw heads, and the obverse and reverse of the blade. Taken without flash ideally in natural light.

[Frogprince]

You'll have to argue with Wittmann. His book says that the Type 1 is the later type and that they came with painted scabbards. I still say I don't ever remember seeing a type 1 with a anodized scabbard. If you have one, post it.

In my experience, most Type I SS chained daggers had blued scabbards. They did have painted scabbards, but there were fewer of these.

Can't argue that it's possible the blade may be polished, and I would also be good to see a reverse photo to see if it has a maker's mark. Obviously a flash was used that makes things look worse than they might be. We need better photos.

I would want to see a clear photo of an individual skull link, a photo of the top clover link to see if the DRGM shows through, the scabbard screw heads, and the obverse and reverse of the blade. Taken without flash ideally in natural light.

From my own perspective, the third production series of M1936 daggers pursuant to a 1935 directive allowed the use of pre-existing supplies of copper for nonmilitary uses. But restricted any new deliveries, which was the reason behind what forced makers to use substitutes in the first place, and is what caused the steel based chains etc. to become the new standard. With the so-called "Type I" the third production series that was made in an: a) or early version with nickel plated malleable cast iron hilt components (and painted scabbard). And a later: b) version with nickel plated zinc hilt components (and blued scabbard) with some possibly being in-between crossover examples). With page 132 of TW's book showing what he calls a "mid period example" with an anodized scabbard (correcting himself to conform with the rest of the TR collecting world such as gun, bayonet etc. collectors) by following it with the correct terminology "blued". Also mentioning that the dagger has (nickel) plated cross guards. My point here being that the painted vs. blued seems to be time sensitive. FP

[DR DOLCH]

Has the look and fit off a parts dagger to me.p

[Larry Lipps]

Frog, I agree with your timeline perspective. Unfortunately it's just been too long since I was in the dagger collecting arena. For some reason I was thinking that two screws in the center ramp indicated a painted scabbard. After a little research, I realize I'm backwards. While I don't ever remember encountering one, I did see an anodized type I scabbard.as well. That being said, due to the timeline, I don't believe these were the norm for type I chained daggers. I could be wrong there as well. Maybe I'll just continue to keep my mouth shut.

[Ron Weinand]

I would pass on this one. I don't like the crossguards and the fit of the lower guard and scabbard throat. It also appears too thick. I have never found a non-blued scabbard with this type chain from a veteran. Just my experience.

[Frogprince]

Has the look and fit off a parts dagger to me.p

In agreement, based on what I believe I saw when I took a closer look at the parts that make up this dagger - I would not rule out a so-called "East Bloc" influence from fake/counterfeit parts. FP

[kpaintner]

Thanks for all the comments. I am going to try and get a look at the dagger in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks,
Kevin