Did Eickhorn Make a MP STEN 3008 GUN during the war.

[damasco]

As I do know the answer to the question posted.. And since some posts have been removed I have deleted my original text...

[Frogprince]

As I do know the answer to the question posted.. And since some posts have been removed I have deleted my original text...

James, There is no period evidence that that I know of that Eickhorn made the MP. 3008 - whereas there is for some other non-Solingen based manufacturers. With Solingen itself a frequent bombing target near the end of war. The Eickhorn factory itself was also reported as being very heavily damaged later in the war, including its archives, by the late Anthony Carter who made multiple trips there. Which he explained to me in correspondence was primarily necessitated due to his difficulties in getting information from the family. Having seen some of the documentation myself from the other part of your question PM me if you wish to discuss it. Or not. Best Regards, Fred

[Serge M.]

>> After the arrival of American troops in Solingen on 17 April 1945, the search of the local industry for interesting technical achievements began. In the course of this search Captain Phillip B. Sharpe (U.S. Army Ordnance Technical Intelligence Unit) visited the well-known Carl Eickhorn factory, where he found several MP3008s among other things. In his report of 14 June he wrote: “Specimens of a new German 9mm. Machine Pistol were recovered in the Karl Eickhorn Plant, in Solingen, Germany, together with drawings and proof records indicating that the German designation “M.P. 3008” has been applied to this weapon. It appears to be a simplified version of the British Sten 9mm. Machine Pistol, designed with economy and speed of manufacture in view, stampings assembled by welding being used. The gun cannot be disassembled, and accordingly was probably regarded as highly expendable.”

In his interrogation of employees he found out that only 26 weapons were finished before the occupation. They were not yet distributed. Capt. Sharpe concluded that there must have been other manufacturers, since some of those weapons had been captured in the field.<<

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...99804247,d.cGU

[Frogprince]

Wags, I stand corrected - with my thanks for the update. With that excerpt corroborating some of the information that I had found as it regarded other makers of what I think can properly be considered “last ditch” weapons (not to be confused with what I’ve seen described in sales literature as “last ditch” dress sidearms). Best Regards, Fred

[damasco]

>> After the arrival of American troops in Solingen on 17 April 1945, the search of the local industry for interesting technical achievements began. In the course of this search Captain Phillip B. Sharpe (U.S. Army Ordnance Technical Intelligence Unit) visited the well-known Carl Eickhorn factory, where he found several MP3008s among other things. In his report of 14 June he wrote: “Specimens of a new German 9mm. Machine Pistol were recovered in the Karl Eickhorn Plant, in Solingen, Germany, together with drawings and proof records indicating that the German designation “M.P. 3008” has been applied to this weapon. It appears to be a simplified version of the British Sten 9mm. Machine Pistol, designed with economy and speed of manufacture in view, stampings assembled by welding being used. The gun cannot be disassembled, and accordingly was probably regarded as highly expendable.”

In his interrogation of employees he found out that only 26 weapons were finished before the occupation. They were not yet distributed. Capt. Sharpe concluded that there must have been other manufacturers, since some of those weapons had been captured in the field.<<

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...99804247,d.cGU

Yes,that is available on the internet and thank you Wags for posting this...
The question I originally posted and deleted was a loaded one..
Eickhorn made MP Sten Guns what I'm asking now is OK lets see the physical prove as in pictures , Documents...
Being the devils advocate here (is the information on the internet correct???)
What happens if documents are found that contradict the internet information???
ARE THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS FAKE!
It seems that is how a few people think on this forum...
I posted this to show a point...You cannot believe every thing you read on forums ,internet and some books etc.. as ALL of the Eickhorn factory files were intact at the end of the war this is a fact..
Frogprince , to list a few unusual things I have tax returns, machine inventory with pictures,
P.S. I also have the Bomb damage report of the Eickhorn factory made out by a Representative from WKC to be impartial..
So I guess I know what was damaged. As I have the Documents..
There are many things Eickhorn made before 1946 that the collecting community in general has never heard about.
Do we get the point I'm trying to make here...
P.S. I have nothing but respect for the late Anthony Carter (he died to young) as his research and books are GREAT.. But when he was at Eickhorn he was told a untruth..
When Eickhorn went bankrupt everything was sold.. Some of the files came to the states and some stayed in Germany..

[Frogprince]

Yes,that is available on the internet and thank you Wags for posting this...
The question I originally posted and deleted was a loaded one..
Eickhorn made MP Sten Guns what I'm asking now is OK lets see the physical prove as in pictures , Documents...
Being the devils advocate here (is the information on the internet correct???)
What happens if documents are found that contradict the internet information???
ARE THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS FAKE!
It seems that is how a few people think on this forum...
I posted this to show a point...You cannot believe every thing you read on forums ,internet and some books etc.. as ALL of the Eickhorn factory files were intact at the end of the war this is a fact..
Frogprince , to list a few unusual things I have tax returns, machine inventory with pictures,
P.S. I also have the Bomb damage report of the Eickhorn factory made out by a Representative from WKC to be impartial..
So I guess I know what was damaged. As I have the Documents..
There are many things Eickhorn made before 1946 that the collecting community in general has never heard about.
Do we get the point I'm trying to make here...
P.S. I have nothing but respect for the late Anthony Carter (he died to young) as his research and books are GREAT.. But when he was at Eickhorn he was told a untruth..
When Eickhorn went bankrupt everything was sold.. Some of the files came to the states and some stayed in Germany..

James, We are in agreement that Anthony died much too young, and as a matter of general principal I very much like to see original factory and other legitimate period documentation, irrespective of what it does to any prior beliefs that I may have held. But I don’t believe that what I’ve seen that was supposed to be factory documentation, and what you have are the same.

As for the products of Solingen in 1945 in general, and more specifically from Eickhorn from actual specimens, that information is fairly elusive. With informal estimates from the serial numbers of bayonets in 1945 (which is sometimes questioned) putting the total production numbers of the bayonets at about 30,000 from the 5 makers reported (this information also could very well be out of date). With the actual examples seen in circulation making them much scarcer than many daggers that are considered rare. Earlier, Eickhorn itself as it did with some other things, subcontracted the stamped tool kits of the SG 42 bayonets to Klaas. Fast forward to stamped submachine guns with my curiosity now aroused - how accurate was the Internet report that Wags posted about the MP/Sten type submachines "that only 26 weapons were finished before the occupation"? With Best Regards, Fred

[Ron Weinand]

Thank you Damasco concerning your comments about the internet. I take with a grain of NaCl what I see on forums and some of the stands some members make about wartime records and documents.

[Frogprince]

Certainly the Internet is not a perfect source of information with the actual period records/documentation a preferred source. Which IMO can also include books or even Internet sites that have reprints and/or images of actual period source documents. But more to the point with this thread as to Eickhorn and its wartime production: I think that the following information might help give some idea as to the company’s production capabilities, which in this case is of combat/service bayonets manufactured during the later period of the war. With a disclaimer that it’s from an older data set of reported serial numbers (rounded off) that is not going to be completely up to date. Production in 1943 = 275,000. Production in 1944 = 252,000. Best Regards, Fred

[Alan Smith]

I'm not a dagger guy; I'm a "gun guy" (including a heavy focus on WWI and WWII German machineguns).

I have in my collection several of the stamped metal fusse spring covers that go on 08/15 MG's, each of which has the Carl Eickhorn logo (w/ squirrel) stamped into them. Also, the special aircraft charging lever on my LMG 08/15 is marked with this same CE logo.

In WWII, Carl Eickhorn used the "cof" 3-letter code, correct? You see plenty of the stamped metal MG42 top covers that are marked with the cof code.

Based on my personal observations, it appears that Carl Eickhorn was a subcontractor for small arms-related items in both WWI and WWII. Any further thoughts/information on this issue would be well-received, as I find the use of a "dagger" company for subcontracting small arms components to be very interesting.

[Schlange]

Yes Carl Eickhorn is used code "cof" on the post 1940 K98 bayonet.


Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi