Chained SS Dagger with Gau marking Sa, Opinions

[lakesidetrader]

Interesting Eric.
Would love to see a solid nickel Type I.
You may prove yet again to never say never...

[The Red Baron]

Not to be unnecessarily abrupt, but I’ve got some other things to do today to get ready for the 4th of July so I don’t have really have a lot of time now for extraneous dialogue. I posted images for everyone to look at, so what is your problem? You don’t understand the pictures, or what I’ve said?? FP

Reference: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=808852

Just couldn't figure out if you were challenging validity of "factory assembled" chained M36 daggers with these SA marks on the lower crossguard.

[Skyline Drive]

As far as Type I's with plated fittings- all type I's have plating fittings.
No Exceptions.

Paul... you are being facetious... aren't you?

[nickn]

Froggy
So all the vets be they american or english were lieing or mistaken when they said how they acquired their gau marked 36's ?
All of them??
I have bought two from veterans ,one american one english well scotish actually, I cannot remember the story the first told me as it was nearly 40 years ago but the last I was told was picked up in Italy before the wars end so no chance it was put together for gi's
Or was he lieing ?

[Reibert-Austria]

Had an interesting dicussion there also:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=743247

[nickn]

We are flogging a dead horse
Most advanced collectors and dealers who have acquired these often directly
Accept them for what they are
Other people ,who I guess don't collect of deal in daggers ,don't

[Reibert-Austria]

We are flogging a dead horse
Most advanced collectors and dealers who have acquired these often directly
Accept them for what they are
Other people ,who I guess don't collect of deal in daggers ,don't

[The Red Baron]

We are flogging a dead horse
Most advanced collectors and dealers who have acquired these often directly
Accept them for what they are
Other people ,who I guess don't collect of deal in daggers ,don't

[Robert H]

Type I is for me the early M36 made examples.
Painted scabbard and nose bone in the skull chain.
All nickel silver.

Pls correct me if I am wrong.

[krikke1980]

Type I is for me the early M36 made examples.
Painted scabbard and nose bone in the skull chain.
All nickel silver.

Pls correct me if I am wrong.

Then you're talking about the type A which Ralph Siegert uses.
His names for the different types is much logically then the terms Wittmann uses.
They are old and not accurate anymore.
He uses Type I for the late chaines and Type II for the early chaines...
So where's the logic here?

It's about time that the collectorcommunity starts to use Siegerts terms and forget
Wittmann's terms...

[Robert H]

Then you're talking about the type A which Ralph Siegert uses.
His names for the different types is much logically then the terms Wittmann uses.
They are old and not accurate anymore.
He uses Type I for the late chaines and Type II for the early chaines...
So where's the logic here?

It's about time that the collectorcommunity starts to use Siegerts terms and forget
Wittmann's terms...

[Frogprince]

Then you're talking about the type A which Ralph Siegert uses.
His names for the different types is much logically then the terms Wittmann uses.
They are old and not accurate anymore.
He uses Type I for the late chaines and Type II for the early chaines...
So where's the logic here?

It's about time that the collectorcommunity starts to use Siegerts terms and forget
Wittmann's terms...

Good luck with that. The first generation chains (Type A with a nasal septum) were written about, pictures and all, on GDC before TW's book was published online @ GDC. Very well received by all those who commented on and added something to the discussion - it did not make it into his book. Not unlike he and some others who still cling to "anodized" as a period finish for the political daggers etc. - I don't think that they will ever change. FP

[krikke1980]

Good luck with that. The first generation chains (Type A with a nasal septum) were written about, pictures and all, on GDC before TW's book was published online @ GDC. Very well received by all those who commented on and added something to the discussion - it did not make it into his book. Not unlike he and some others who still cling to "anodized" as a period finish for the political daggers etc. - I don't think that they will ever change. FP

Yes, offcourse. Eventually every one uses what he likes the most.
It just doesn't make sence... but ok.
'Jedem das seine'...! :-)

[patrice]

Point noted, although I would like to take it a step further. I believe that it’s generally accepted that the cross guards were not SA Gruppe stamped in the factory because there are too many differences. Not that long ago Barry Brown in another thread posted an interesting period picture of a working dagger inspection team with a very large number of daggers in process, that shows that some kind of factory or organization controls were in place for items made for the SS.

So they put a bunch of used, hand fitted to the original SA grip and scabbard, sand cast ex-Röhm dagger nickel silver parts on hold. Instead of recycling them to recover the 2/3 copper and residual nickel alloys for the military buildup which was the underlying reason for using steel chain sets in the first place? And none of the SS Officers or men could see the old now discredited SA markings on their privately purchased daggers that they just paid a roughly 40% extra premium for? And why just some of the third production series so-called “Type I” SS daggers? Why not put them on the same period M 1933 daggers as well? Or even the new production SA - NSKK daggers if nobody cared? With, from a manufacturing point of view, to try and make identical brand new looking daggers - do you want to start from scratch? Or try to work with a bunch of old used differently dimensioned parts from multiple makers? Which is why many guys say that it’s very difficult (if not impossible) to change cross guards. Where is the logic in that (if it's coming from the same guys)?

With some of those who have over time made many vet motel, show, etc. buys telling you of multiple pieces that they had to reassemble properly (if they could). Because some of the GI’s fooled around in various ways with their souvenirs that were not highly valued “back in the day”. While others left them untouched. FP

Frogprince,

I prefer your theory over the one given by others.
Vet acquired ? That's no proof, why wouldn't a vet fool around with a dagger ? In any case, all daggers were one way or another vet acquired and yet, many are found to be wrong, how could this be if they were vet acquired ?
If this one had no Gau marked it would have been sold a long time ago on estand. They could very well be real but for the same price, why would anyone bother with a questionable piece ? Terra incognita !