what means the "cross grain" ?

[Philippe Gérard]

i take the risk to feel stupid,but i should like to ask what is the cross grain of a dagger ?
thanks

[checkit]

Hello Phillipe - Great to hear from you! I am not a dagger collector, but I think they are referring to the lines on the blade as shown in this picture.

[Wim Vangossum]

There are no stupid questions. Everyone has still something to learn. Crossgraining are indeed the very thin lines on a blade caused by the grinding proces. The more crossgrain that is still visible on an old blade, the more valuable it is. Crossgraining disappears from intensive polishing. So you can have pretty shiny blades without much value.

Note that a blade that is nickle plated shows no crossgraining.



Regards, Wim

[Colorado]

Showtime. The lines are visible in this photo of a dagger I used to own.

[fdodge]

Valid question and good answer

[Schlange]

The more crossgrain that is still visible on an old blade, the more valuable it is. Crossgraining disappears from intensive polishing. So you can have pretty shiny blades without much value.

Not necessarily.

Some manufacturers had less visible crossgrains than others.



Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi

[Wim Vangossum]

Not necessarily.

Some manufacturers had less visible crossgrains than others.



Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi

Yes Schlange, I agree with that. If they did a factory mirror-like polishing on their blades, the crossgraining was already less prominent.

Regards, Wim

[Rheingold]

i take the risk to feel stupid,but i should like to ask what is the cross grain of a dagger ?
thanks

Here is a very interesting statement regarding the cross graining from a member from Canada,Wolfeknives:
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"..... Of special interest were the discussions on grinding and cross graining in earlier posts in this forum.
I have been collecting TR daggers for many years, since they tie into my passion for knives as a custom knife maker. One of the custom knife shows I participate in every year is held at the Klingenmuseum in Solingen. When the show was first started by the museum, many of the locals attended. Since I do all my work completely by hand, I attracted the attention of an older gentleman who was a apprentice knife grinder / polisher near the end of the war. Since I collect TR daggers, I was very interested. He explained the use of the very large & wide grinding wheels to achieve the flat grind on the blades.
Of speial was interest polshing process. He explained that the face of the relatively large polishing wheel was not flat, but tapered back at a 45 degree angle to provide a almost flat and wide surface. The face of the wheel was covered with thick walrus leater. This explains the parallel polishing lines along the entire length of the blade. He also explained that the crossgraining was not something that the polishers aimed for, but was a result of contamination from the grinding process reaching the polishing wheels, unavoidable under the factory conditions. It is interesting that the feature we admire in TR blades was an annoyance to the polishers. When we finished our conversation he invided me to his home to show me some of the polishing wheel he had rescued after the war as well as some of the blades he had ground and polished during his apprenticeship. Unfortunatly I was not able to take him up on the offer. Sadly I have not seen him at any of the later shows, I would love to get some photographs of his treasures. This is one of my first posts, hope the subject is not inappropriate."

[Frogprince]

Here is a very interesting statement regarding the cross graining from a member from Canada,Wolfeknives:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"..... Of special interest were the discussions on grinding and cross graining in earlier posts in this forum.
I have been collecting TR daggers for many years, since they tie into my passion for knives as a custom knife maker. One of the custom knife shows I participate in every year is held at the Klingenmuseum in Solingen. When the show was first started by the museum, many of the locals attended. Since I do all my work completely by hand, I attracted the attention of an older gentleman who was a apprentice knife grinder / polisher near the end of the war. Since I collect TR daggers, I was very interested. He explained the use of the very large & wide grinding wheels to achieve the flat grind on the blades.
Of speial was interest polshing process. He explained that the face of the relatively large polishing wheel was not flat, but tapered back at a 45 degree angle to provide a almost flat and wide surface. The face of the wheel was covered with thick walrus leater. This explains the parallel polishing lines along the entire length of the blade. He also explained that the crossgraining was not something that the polishers aimed for, but was a result of contamination from the grinding process reaching the polishing wheels, unavoidable under the factory conditions. It is interesting that the feature we admire in TR blades was an annoyance to the polishers. When we finished our conversation he invided me to his home to show me some of the polishing wheel he had rescued after the war as well as some of the blades he had ground and polished during his apprenticeship. Unfortunatly I was not able to take him up on the offer. Sadly I have not seen him at any of the later shows, I would love to get some photographs of his treasures. This is one of my first posts, hope the subject is not inappropriate."

While I don't disagree with the above posting, I would like to add another perspective. The Germans for military weapons did in fact migrate from 'high polish' finishes in the earlier to mid years to a "brush" or satin, ie: like cross graining, type finish (presumably) to speed up the manufacturing process. And because they are dated and/or serial numbered can be tracked by maker. My point being that high polish finishes were achievable under period factory conditions/processes. But they were time consuming and required extra care. Whereas a satin type finish is more easily done, not as expensive and can conceal small cosmetic flaws. FP

[rob NL]

There are no stupid questions. Everyone has still something to learn.



Regards, Wim

[Philippe Gérard]

Thanks a lot for precious infos.

[fdodge]

I seem to recall a maker whose grain runs lengthwise along the blade.

[BrianK]

Crossgrain means higher prices from the dealers.

[fdodge]

Crossgrain means higher prices from the dealers.

As would anything desirable. Like buying a car with a nice paint job vs a car that has been through a dozen hail storms.

I seem to recall a maker whose grain runs lengthwise along the blade.

Anyone know a maker???

[Bulldog]

Holler army daggers has crossgrain running lengthwise down the centre of the blade and across at the sides of the blade.