What are your thoughts on this dagger?
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This dagger was also posted by another member, must be for sale somehwere
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I don't have a problem with this piece from the pitctures, the gap in the grip fit is a bit concerning, but, considering this is an eickhorn and by the looks of it has been subject to hard aging, the shrinkage may come thereform. -
I see evidence of grip insignia replacement, or attempts to. Need to check the scabbard and see if it's an Eickhorn. Hilt is Eickhorn.Comment
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To me it doesn't look like this is the original grip to this dagger.Comment
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So it looks like it is an original SS dagger, may have had some parts changed out, but what is the value to a dagger like this? I was looking to buy this and if I can get it at a reasonable price for its condition it may be worth it.Comment
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While you guys may be right about attempts to replace the grip insignia (they both look over clean compared to the remainder of the dagger-the insignia that is), i think there is a chance that during the crap[poy aging and drying out this dagger has gone through, the wood tries to shrink in these areas, and thus suffers excess cracking and chipping from such increased pressure. Just a thought.
anyway, in this economic climate, I wouldn't pay much for this piece...Comment
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Scabbard does not fit the crossguard and doesn't look like an Eickhorn to me.Comment
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OK so its maybe a parts dagger? What is a good deal for something in this condition.Comment
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I trust that I am not alone in this opinion, Brock, but in response to your question -- "What is a good deal for something in this condition?" -- I would have to say that there is NO value to a 'parts dagger,' so there is no "good deal" possible here. The only function of a parts dagger is to provide scavenger pieces to someone who would attempt to change the appearance of another dagger, thus creating TWO parts daggers where originally there had only been one. Such efforts eventually get into the collecting stream and soon corrupt our hobby by presenting themselves as original pieces, when indeed they are anything but.
Sorry, my friend, but 'Frankenstein's Monster' should be left in it's grave!
Br. JamesComment
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Thanks James, but I do not agree. If that were the case, mismatched lugers, p38s and K98s would be crushed as scrap. If something is altered to make it more desirable than I would agree, but even now, the old deaths head or tottenkopf lugers are being collected by some knowing they are old fakes. Some old contemporary counterfeit confederate notes will bring more money than the original version they were counter fitting. Its all part of the history in my mind. A parts dagger was there, it was made during the war and someone used it. No one knows if it was damaged and even before the war ended someone changed out parts or what the real history is to the piece, but one thing is for sure, it was there. So it has some value. Does it have as much value as an all matching version? No but is it worthless? Not at all. If that were the case if a p38 had its springs repalced it should be tossed in the trash, its not original.Originally posted by Br. James View Post
I was just talking to a collector about this at a gun show this weekend. Take a luger that has most of its parts numbered. If one part is mismatched its not matching, except the mag. If you replace the one part say a hold open lever with a matching two digit number its now all matching agiain, now take a Remington rand pistol and no parts are numbered to the gun, so if it has a HS marked barrel with P on the left side, and the correct other marks that all the guns in that particular series had then its considered matching and holds the same value as a gun that has all the same parts that it came with from the factory. You can replace a barrel, mag, grip safety and its considered original even if its not the one it came with from the factory as long as it is the one that series came from. Say a crosshatch verses serrated. Do that with a luger or K98 and its now a mismatch even if its only one digit off.Last edited by brock; 02-16-2015, 11:14 AM.Comment
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Are you saying you doubt its original or that you doubt it has not been tampered with?Originally posted by Rheingold View PostComment
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Hi Brock,
I didn't suppose that you would agree with my position, and I am certainly aware -- after more than 50 years in this hobby -- that others feel the same. But I must be honest in my opinion, so that is what I gave you.
I do understand that there are various ways to categorize articles made from parts, such as pistols, though I have never been a gun collector myself. But I would imagine that a Luger, a P.38, a PPK or whatever weapon being presented as "original to the period" would presume that all numbered parts were matching and not simply that all the parts were manufactured during the period -- other than perhaps the clip, which was often replaced or added during the period. So, while it is not possible to positively identify today a dagger that had had one or more of its parts replaced during the TR era, anyone presenting such a piece as "original to the period" would be seen to be misrepresenting an artifact's integrity.
Your point regarding counterfeit confederate banknotes is significant, as it involves a newly-created field of collecting. If there were collectors who specifically collected parts daggers as an autonomous category, then this SS piece would fit right in. But I am unaware of anyone who collects parts daggers as a specific category or field. But if there were a group of such collectors, then this SS piece would be out of its classification to be discussed as equal to pieces produced in the period.
How many times I have heard about collectors who bought pieces from dealers, only to discover that the pieces were parts daggers, and then had to 'go through hell and high water' to get the dealers to take those pieces back and issue refunds.
With very best wishes,
Br. JamesComment
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I have to agree with Bro. James. What may hold good for issued firearms and combat bayonets, subject to armourer overhaul during their TR period life, does not hold good for dress daggers etc. A parts dagger will always be a disappointment; jmho.Comment
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Originally posted by Barry Brown View Post
A well stated opinion - that in my personal humble opinion blows the legitimacy of the "parts piece" argument out of the water. With the Germans (like many others) having an established overhaul and refurbishment policy for weapons especially in the early years. That highlights the difference between weapons that were designed and actually used as weapons versus dress items that were designed to be accesssories to uniforms. FP
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