Hello folks. This came to me a via a house call this week...I believe the sword itself dates to the mid - late 19th century, maker marked to "Kull" and with a deaths-head motif to the opposite ricasso area. My question however, regards the sword knot, which I believe is a standard fare NCO type Troddel. Since this came out of the estate of a WWII USAAF officer, I think it "might" be a possibility that this sword, regardless of its 19th century origin, could have well been worn in this configuration w/ this knot during the TR period, or?? Anyway, just wanted to confirm that it IS in fact, a standard NCO type knot. A quick snap below, and thanks for any feedback.
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Sabre is Austro-Hungarian M1861 for Infantry, while the portepee is belongs to standard German WW2 dress bayonet.
Schlange
http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi -
Thanks Schlange. Thought as much. Do you think it could've been worn in this configuration during the TR period, or probably the more likely scenario, is that the veteran "married" them together in order to dress up the saber?Comment
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It is almost impossible to tell what was happened with these one sabre and portepee.
Personally - I like to see only a text-book stuff.
Schlange
http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumiComment
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I understand. Regarding "textbook", we all know that there are many, many circumstances in which items will appear in configurations other than how they left the factory or were originally issued. Some folks like things exactly "as issued, which I can certainly understand. I however, personally find veteran "embellished" items, or theater made pieces quite attractive, due to their uniqueness. Obviously, in this case, it's simply a WWII period knot applied to an earlier saber, no great relevance either way. Thanks again for taking the time to comment!Comment
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The sabre could be earlier as M1861 as only korb is probably from the modell,so or the scabbard is of earlier sabre.Any details of marking?Comment
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Hi Andy. The only markings on the blade are a "deathshead" (skull) on one side of the ricasso, and the maker "Kull" on the other. There is also a numeric or letter marking on the finial (at the end of the basket-guard), but otherwise, nothing on the blade spine, etc. Thank you for commenting.Comment
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Hi,the skull marking on blade is certainly problematic.most probably a fake stamp.Without pictures no more to say, same as complete view of sabre would be desirable.Comment
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Hi again Andy. No, not a "fake" stamp, but apparently a known mark of this company "Kuell". Have a look on line and you'll see some other examples of this marking. I'll put up some more photos tomorrow if that will help you. I only put up the one photo of the hilt because my initial inquiry was only regarding the knot, as I had already researched the saber itself. Thx.Comment
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And what is the end point of the research of the sabre, what for modell is the sabre?Comment
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Here are a couple of quick snaps of the ricasso markings. Maker mark "Kuell" and "deaths-head" stamp on the opposite side. As far as I can ascertain, it's a Model of 1861 Austro-Hungarian as also previously id'd in this thread.Comment
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We can distinguish two types of Austro-hungarian sabres type M1861:
- sabres produced in the Austro-hungarian Empire. (These sabres has a screw at blade tang end.)
- sabers manufactured in Germany Empire. (Blade tang has a rivet at the end.)
These sabre has a rivet on the end of sabre blade tang, which means that it is produced in the German Empire. (Solingen.)
Kull Solingen has often double markings. On one side of the blade is the name of the company, while on the other is the skull logo.
Schlange
http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumiComment
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Thanks Schlange. I believe mine has a screw-type pommel fastener, similar to the bolts on an early FJ helmet if memory serves....(two small holes for a 2 pronged "forked" type driver)Comment
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Very interesting piece.
There are lots of "nontextbook" accoutrements that were worn in the period. There are pictures to prove this. Of course the textbooks or forums were not available at the time so the rules were not always followed.
Some times you even see 2 portepees on one piece. I've bought them from Vet's families this way. Lots of speculation as the why. Some say guys had dual service, ie. were in the Red Cross and the Army for example. I think just as often the "tinkering" with this stuff started in 1945 and guys started to play with this stuff the day they got 'em.
My father-in-law recalls that the Allies issued orders that all weapons were to be brought to the town square shortly after occupation. People brought all kinds of swords, daggers and guns. They were in a huge pile and GI's sorted through them bringing home what they wanted the rest were destroyed.
Oh to be there!!Comment
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I personally dont believe its a austrian M1861 sabre, more real hessian or other small german state sabre, that was copied from austrian design. The blade is different, same as there are diferences in handle and korb.Comment
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