ID of Dagger

[Ed.Anderson,Jr.]

Dagger in center, Swiss? Sorry only photo at this time.
Regards,

[Schlange]

The lowermost one is Swiss M1943.

Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi

[Billy G]

My first inclination is to say the center dagger is a fantasy piece cobbled together from Luft 1st parts & some others but I just have no experience with Swiss items. The cross on the cross-guard looks Swiss & the knot appears so as well. I hope Jim W. or Bob Rodgers chime in.

[Ed.Anderson,Jr.]

Better shots

[Ed.Anderson,Jr.]

More shots 2

[rajko84]

That looks too good to be parts piece, it is some kind of Swiss dagger, produced in Germany. I never saw one before.

[Billy G]

Ed,

I agree with Rajko, that dagger is too well made to be a parts piece. The blade etch is very nice & something I've never seen before. As with the consensus, looks Swiss, would love to know for what branch. The knot really finishes it off too, must be a rare accouterment.

[Craig H]

Interesting dagger Ed . Pretty clear a German/Swiss hybrid but not anything Ive ever seen . Wheres Bob Lewis when you need him , RIP .

[rajko84]

I spent hour and a half trying to find that dagger on internet with no luck.

[GREAKLY]

I think this dagger is more likely German than Swiss, because:

1. The only two things which connect it to Switzerland are the knot and the insignia. The knot, however, is likely to have been added by a collector at some point. Note the wear difference between the cross-guard and the knot's ribbon. While the first shows a few clear signs of usage the second looks brand new.

As for the Swiss-looking insignia it is exactly the same as the one of the red cross. In fact, the second one has been chosen after the first one, because of the Geneva convention and the Red Cross HQ location. In other words, the cross insignia could be as much Swiss as red cross's. There is no difference.

2. While insignia on the dagger MIGHT look Swiss the eagles are most certainly NOT. They are as German as they could get. Nazi German, I must add. Look at German books, sculptures, architecture and etc. from the period. You will see familiar "birds".

3. Swiss were (and still are) the national that produced most of their weaponry on their own. With a VERY few exceptions. If this dagger were a Swiss one why would they use Alcoso to produce it? They possessed both: the skills and the machinery to make something like that by themselves. Why didn't they?

3. I do not know any Swiss dagger other than M 1943 one (which is still in use today). In fact, Swiss were not the kind of people to provide each branch of service with its own dagger. I checked some reference sources on the subject, but was unable to find any info regarding the dagger in question:

http://www.detachement40.ch/seiteordonnanz2640text.htm
http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/SWITZERLAND/SWMain.html
http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/SWITZE...ss1939Rank.jpg

On the other hand, Germans were known for giving a dagger to just about everybody and also for creating a huge variety of honor/award/special occasion/commemorative daggers. So, I find it more likely that something unusual pops up among German blades rather than Swiss.

So, my guess is that this dagger belonged to some official of the German Red Cross. Does anybody know which dagger those officials were supposed to be wearing? Especially when working outside of Germany? I mean, were they entitled to the "official" (beamte) dagger or a mere "medical" one? Perhaps (and this is pure speculation) this dagger belonged to some German doctor, who was working at the Red Cross HQ in Switzerland? Did such people wear any kind of uniform at the time?

Also if anybody has the following book:

http://www.naturaktiv.ch/medien/griffwaffen.html
http://www.augera.ch/auction_details...tion_id=188124

Could you please check to see if the dagger in question appears there. That would eliminate ANY possibility of it being Swiss.

[HunterSS]

Just a quick thought, what about the Swiss guards serving the Vatican? Not really familiar with their period daggers....it could explain some issues.

[rajko84]

Just a quick thought, what about the Swiss guards serving the Vatican? Not really familiar with their period daggers....it could explain some issues.

I looked into that, but I could not find any daggers that they used.

[Lampwick]

What about a Masonic dagger? They are very big on crosses on their regalia.

[HunterSS]

Doesn't match any Masonic blade I have came across. Of course all I have encountered are swords and of American makers.

[BIGSPANKY]

Swiss

Hello i lived in switzerland for a year and can say with certainty that this dagger is swiss. Possibly made by alcoso as a presentation. I say this because the cross with rays in the background etching is identical to etchings on swiss military gala or parade/presentation swords... This example i believe is an 1800's swiss army presentation officer's sword. The portepee is also quite similar