Hi guy's, I have a question, I was just wondering how rare are the early SA Daggers with the "A" Script on the Motto, Alles Fur Deutschland? This one is an Eichorn. What are these worth? Thanks!
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Hi Regis,
Welcome among us! Not quite sure what you're referring to; could you post a photo of the piece? Thanks,
Br. James -
Early Carl Eickhorn Solingen are not most common.Originally posted by Regis Stephens View Post
Letter A on the lower crossguard indicates that these SA dagger was that was released in Alpenland District.
Schlange
http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumiComment
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Hello Br. James, the A that I'm refering to is in the blade Motto "Ulles für Deutschland" On the usual script the word Ulles appars to have the first letter that looks like a"U", Ulles. On mine it has an "A" font. The first word "A"lles. When I can figure out hou to downsize picures I'll put a picture on here. The other dagger I have found with this script in my research is refered to as a Weihnachts Dolche. Mine has the regular SA eagle in the grip. I hope I'm not making this to confusing. I guess this is an eary transitional with first motto?
I wondered how rare are these? When I get a chance I can send you a picture to your email.
I couldn't find too much other info on this SA Dagger.
Thanks for your help!Comment
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Very RareComment
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Hi Regis,
Thanks for your further explanation. The font used for the "Alles für Deutschland" motto on SA and NSKK baldes is known as Fraktur, a medieval German lettering style akin to that known as Black Letter in English Gothic script. ("Fraktur" means "broken" and it refers to the open spaces found particularly in German capital letters of that style, as opposed to the closed strokes evident in medieval Black Letter.) I now understand what you're referring to, of course: the "A" in Fraktur does resemble the letter "U" in English Gothic. I have never noticed any real difference in the lettering style of SA or NSKK pieces, so I quickly checked a number of dealer websites -- looking particularly at the motto script style on Eickhorn daggers -- and have noticed no difference as such. This is certainly not conclusive!
I think we will need to see an example of what you're referring to in order to get an accurate impression. As Ron Weinand opined, if this is a genuine example of a difference in font on the blade motto of certain Eichkhorn pieces, then it would be "very rare" indeed. But given the strict inspections each piece went through, such a difference is hard to imagine now.
Br. JamesComment
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Brother James, as Ron is obviously aware, he is referring to the initial production Eickhorn SA dagger with a different A in the Alles fur Deutschland motto. These pieces, with the early motto are considered initial production and somewhat of a proto-type. They were also made by Epack-which used a different grip eagle I believe, while Eickhorn used the traditional grip eagle. These daggers are very rare and very desirable. In my short time collecting, i have seen but one. It is still viewable on Paul Hogles reference section of his site. It will e immediatly apparent when you see it. These daggers are also referenced on pages 4-6 in Wittmann's SS book.Comment
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Here is mine.Comment
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Many thanks to both the Baron and Ron for providing a photo of this rare piece! I obviously didn't retain the information provided by Tom Wittmann in his SS book -- which I now clearly see -- and all I can offer in explanation is that it's been 11 years since Tom's tome was published and I'd forgotten that section! I am grateful for this opportunity to refresh my memory!
Congratulations on owning such a rare and unique piece!
Br. JamesComment
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They really are great pieces with which to supplement a collection; If i were "further along" in my collecting I would have considered Hogle's a few years back. I dont remember what hogle's asking price was-but I think it was near the price of full rohm.Originally posted by Br. James View Post
Ron, any idea how many are out there in collection? 10-20?Comment
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Thanks again, Baron, and from my now-refreshed contact with Tom Wittmann's wonderful volume, it seems that it would actually be possible for a collector to combine both attributes into one. (Here I refer to your note: "I dont remember what hogle's asking price was-but I think it was near the price of full rohm.") From p.5 of Wittmann's SS book: "Initial examples produced by E.P.&S. also are etched with the 'small 'A' motto' but differ from the Eickhorn blade as they were also produced with the Röhm inscription on the reverse." Therefore, if one could actually find a full Röhm-inscribed blade intact, it could possibly also include the protptype motto with the small 'A.'
What I also learned from reacquainting myself with Tom's insightful research was that there were also SA and SS prototypes created which included a different grip eagle than we are used to seeing. Again from p.5: "The prototype E.P.&S. grip also differed from the Eickhorn. It was fitted with the 1929 pattern NSDAP grip eagle with pointed wings." This is also quite a revelation...at least to me! I am thankful that Tom included photos of this unusual grip eagle in his book, for if I ever actually saw one of these pieces on a dealer's table I would have immediately thought "FAKE!" to myself...and may even have said it out loud!
As I've said in the past, every day on WAF is an opportunity for learning!
Br. JamesComment
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