SS "Silbertragriemen" - how was it worn?

[OnnoP]

Could anybody explain to me how the SS officer "Silbertragriemen" as pictured in Mollow vol. 3 and the similar NCO Tragriemen would have been attached to the fabric shoulder belt that was worn under the tunic?

The reason I ask is because all such fabric belts I have been able to find pictures of, appear to have a Karabinerhaken/snap hook and no means to open/undo the belt, although they are adjustable in length similar to a cross strap.

But all variations of Tragriemen I have been able to find pictures of have a belt loop that appears to be too thin for a Koppelriemen, but appear the correct size for attachment to the fabric belt, just as described in Mollow.

But then how would one attach it, if the fabric belt cannot be undone? I get how the snap hook would work with the teardrop hangers, but again, no idea how these fabric belts would work with the Tragriemen.

Also the Tragriemen have a chained hook attached to them, something also seen in some WW1 sword hangers. Does anybody know what he hook is for? Attachment to the Koppelriemen? Or maybe the hook goes on the portepee strap around the sword handle?

And Mollow mentions the Silbertragriemen as an optional extra, with the teardrop hanger I assume being the leather frog he mentions as the standard manner of wearing the sword.

But then he goes on to mention that NCO's wore their swords in the same manner when a Koppelriemen wasn't worn, so also from a teardrop hanger attached to a thin fabric belt, but that when a Koppelriemen wás worn, they would wear their Tragriemen.

This I don't understand, from several perspectives.

From what I have been able to find, the NCO Tragriemen is identical to the Silbertragriemen, but without the silver tresse. So why would the officer item be an optional extra, and the NCO version be regulation fieldgear?

From a functional point of view, the way I see it, both the teardrop hangers and the Tragriemen would attach to the fabric belt and both would hold the sword in place, without either one of these items adding anything special to the uniform appearance-wise (as opposed to the officer Silbertragriemen).

And again, I believe the Tragriemen's belt loop does not allow attachment to a Koppelriemen.

But I do get the idea that Mollow means that the Tragriemen in that case would be attached to the Koppelriemen, or am I wrong? Why else would there be a difference in regulation as to what type of hanger was to be worn by NCO's?

Any light shed on this would be greatlly appreciated!

[Barry Brown]

Here is an example I have which can be attached to a snap clip. the regain chain and hook is to allow the sword to be worn in the hands free position when required. In this regard the teardrop hanger was obviously the more practical option, but not so dressy, imo. Although I have seen teardrops faced with bullion tress.
Other members, better informed, may be more helpful to you.

[Barry Brown]

Tear drops with bullion tress for the SS-Police sword for Officer and General Officer ranks, with Probe tags and labels still attached. These are late, dated 1939 I think.

[Barry Brown]

picture

[OnnoP]

Barry, many thanks for these pictures and info! You've been a great help indeed.

I just found one of the underbelts for the Tragriemen with belt loop on eBay, for a Kriegsmarine sword or dagger I believe: a 30mm wide thicker webbed belt with roller buckle and leather ends, that can of course be undone.

So Mollow meant either a waist belt or a shoulder belt, the waist type being for use with belt loops and the shoulder ones with snap hook for the square catch or D-ring equipped hangers.

I initially interpreted Mollow as talking about one type of belt worn either way.

And those silver hangers are just stunning items indeed! I assume that items like that won't be found with much later fabrication dates, unless perhaps when a private purchase item.

I do still wonder what Mollow meant with regard to NCO's. Why would they have to wear a teardrop hanger with walking-out dress and a Tragriemen when the service belt was worn. In both cases the hangers would hang at about the same height and in neither case would the hanger get in the way of the belt. In fact, Heydrich and Himmler can be seen wearing their swords with a teardrop hanger + service belt with cross strap in several pictures.

It would make sense in any case that in practise all types of non-parade/silver braid hangers would have been worn by all ranks, regardless of regulation.

Barry, could you perhaps explain where the metal chained hook on the Tragriemen would attach? Many thanks in advance!

[Barry Brown]

Barry, could you perhaps explain where the metal chained hook on the Tragriemen would attach? Many thanks in advance!

The snap clip of the hanger would attach to the mobile ring on the scabbard. To secure the sword in the hands free position the hook on the regain chain would be connected to the square bracket located on the reverse of the scabbard band.
The attached picture shows the reverse of an SS degen scabbard, the reverse mounted square fixed bracket is adjacent to the mobile ring mounted at the side. To illustrate, I will try to locate and post a picture of a fully assembled SS degen complete with the full dress sling hanger in place.

[OnnoP]

Although a picture of a fully mounted sword would be absolutely awesome to see, your explanation is very clear, so thank you very much for clearing that up!

One more thing you or anybody else reading this might be able to tell me, is if the officer sword was ever worn hanging from the service belt (either directly or with teardrop hanger)? Or was there a regulation against that?

I've seen several 4,5 cm belt loops with snap hook attached instead of a D-ring, that I assume are for attaching a teardrop hanger to the service belt.

But I've only ever seen the chained dagger hanging from EM/NCO service belts, usually just clipped on a upside down belt loop with D-ring.

Was there a difference between EM/NCO/officer ranks with regards to wearing their edged weaponry suspended from the service belt?