SS on e-stand

[scotty1418]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the RZM listed currently on e-stand? on the price?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=704760

[Br. James]

With all respect to Lee, I don't like either of the two pieces he has presented. The earlier one is supposed to be a ground Röhm SS M-33, though it includes an SA/NSKK scabbard and the black die used on the grip is very faded and showing the brown under-color. The photo of the blade's reverse is poor and does not indicate the former presence of a Röhm dedication. The SS serial number is not that of an officer, though it may be researchable. The other piece has blade markings that appear amateurishly done and the hardware and the grip are weak. I think both pieces are parts daggers, at best.

Br. James

[nickn]

The bokers fine grip colour normal small boker mark indicates a ground rohm
I don't like the blade on the rzm or the grip

[nickn]

Br James
Why do you think the boker scabbard is sa/nskk

[The Red Baron]

The Boker is fine. and yes it is a GR

[BIGSPANKY]

Ss daggers

with all respect to lee, i don't like either of the two pieces he has presented. The earlier one is supposed to be a ground röhm ss m-33, though it includes an sa/nskk scabbard and the black die used on the grip is very faded and showing the brown under-color. The photo of the blade's reverse is poor and does not indicate the former presence of a röhm dedication. The ss serial number is not that of an officer, though it may be researchable. The other piece has blade markings that appear amateurishly done and the hardware and the grip are weak. I think both pieces are parts daggers, at best.

Br. James

the rzm i got as part of a deal with the ruptured duck. One look would tell you instantly of the repair, and the scabbard re-paint. I have done business with bill shea before, and trust him when he says that aside from the stated restorations that it is fine. He gave me a lifetime guarantee of it's authenticity, and i have no reason to question it. The price is consistent with the repairs. It is a decent piece for display in hand. I would be curious also as to why br. James believes the boker is not a ground rohm, and why it is an SA/nskk scabbard. Furthermore since all ss daggers were technically the same, and that only the advent of the chain scabbard/ portepee differentiated the officers dagger, i am curious why it would be an issue regarding this dagger if it was from an em/nco?? And just for my edification, (pardon my ignorance) how is it that you can tell this is not an officer's ss number? Please explain... These daggers are not the best daggers known to have survived the war- they are the low end in my collection, and the ones i am willing to part with to fund another piece. They are genuine, and decent pieces, especially for someone's first ss.

[BIGSPANKY]

Same dagger no flash

Unfortunately the flash from the camera reveals/creates all flaws, here is the same dagger photographed with no flash...

[Rheingold]

The Böker is fine for this price. No matter if officer or em. It is shown in the "numbering order,28th June 1934 "
"Die Staffelmänner",(squadron men). It relates to all men who had received the Ehrendolch.

[Br. James]

Hi Bigspanky,

Thanks for your response. I have also known Bill Shea for a long time and respect his experience in our hobby. My conclusion that the Boker is not a ground Röhm is only based upon the photos as I see them, and perhaps the glare of the flash obscures any evidence of grinding and refinishing...but I couldn't see any. So too with the scabbard, the body of which appears to me to be brown instead of black. Here again, the lighting may be at fault, but all I can do is comment on what I can see. And my conclusion that the Boker piece was originally held by an SS EM and not an officer is based upon the scholarship of our colleague, Bernie Brulé in his fine research tool, "The Key," wherein he itemizes every SS Man's membership number and name, as seen in the several volumes of the DALs -- "Dienstaltersliste der SS," which only ever included SS members of officer's rank. Any serial number found that does not match one in "The Key" is therefore assumed to have been from someone of the enlisted ranks.

Hope these further comments are helpful, my friend.

Br. James

[scotty1418]

With respect to the seller, shouldn't he have openly listed the issues noted above?

[BIGSPANKY]

Repairs

With respect to the seller, shouldn't he have openly listed the issues noted above?

As far as listing the stated repairs: A. I felt that they were so blatant that it was not necessary- especially priced as it is. I have however stated it to every single person who inquired about that dagger. Disclosure is disclosure.

[BIGSPANKY]

response

here is one response i got: Hi Lee
Sorry for the late reply, my work schedule decided to get in the way of my hunt for fine Third Reich militaria. I appreciate your honesty. I did not notice that the dagger had been repaired but based on that I am going to pass on purchasing it. Thank You again for being honest and up front. The vast majority would have pursued the sale without being forthright with that information.

[tobau]

The Böker SS-dagger looks good to me.

[BIGSPANKY]

Thank you

Hi Bigspanky,

Thanks for your response. I have also known Bill Shea for a long time and respect his experience in our hobby. My conclusion that the Boker is not a ground Röhm is only based upon the photos as I see them, and perhaps the glare of the flash obscures any evidence of grinding and refinishing...but I couldn't see any. So too with the scabbard, the body of which appears to me to be brown instead of black. Here again, the lighting may be at fault, but all I can do is comment on what I can see. And my conclusion that the Boker piece was originally held by an SS EM and not an officer is based upon the scholarship of our colleague, Bernie Brulé in his fine research tool, "The Key," wherein he itemizes every SS Man's membership number and name, as seen in the several volumes of the DALs -- "Dienstaltersliste der SS," which only ever included SS members of officer's rank. Any serial number found that does not match one in "The Key" is therefore assumed to have been from someone of the enlisted ranks.

Hope these further comments are helpful, my friend.

Br. James

INTERESTING- THANKS!

[zozole]

sorry to say that the rzm has a re-inserted eagle imo...