SS Dagger, not markings

[belgrano]

Dear Friends, please your opinions of this SS Dagger Manufacturer unmarked, original or fake?. Sorry i have only these photos. Thanks in advance

[R.R.]

I'm not expert, but seems to me a M-36 without it's scabbard.

[Br. James]

Hi Belgrano,

As RR said, I'm also no expert, but I would make a few observations regarding this sad piece. As a generalization, it seems anathema to me for any NSDAP dagger to have found its way into circulation without either a maker's mark or, later, an RZM license code number on its blade. Having said that, I also know that when some blades have had their reverse inscriptions 'wiped,' the maker's mark has also been either partly or fully eradicated. I see no evidence that this piece has been through such a 'cleansing process' since the runner marks on the obverse appear to be basically the same on the reverse...at least from this set of pix. And if this piece, or parts of it, came to life in the form of a Röhm Honor Dagger, the reverse lower crossgurard would have included an SS District mark...which this piece doesn't. The ebony grip has seen quite a hard life, with chips in several places, and it is hard to really tell how closely the fit to the crossguards were mated. The eagle has seen much wear and has lost its silver coating, exposing the base metal underneath. And the absence of a scabbard, IMO, renders this piece as pretty much an orphan, since anyone purchasing this dagger will probably want to replace the scabbard with another one...which will probably not fit like the original...and thus further increase suspicion that this is a 'parts dagger' -- which, in that case, it truly would be.

In the end, if you are considering purchasing this piece, I hope you will consider the points above. With best wishes,

Br. James

[R.R.]

Hi Belgrano,

As RR said, I'm also no expert, but I would make a few observations regarding this sad piece. As a generalization, it seems anathema to me for any NSDAP dagger to have found its way into circulation without either a maker's mark or, later, an RZM license code number on its blade. Having said that, I also know that when some blades have had their reverse inscriptions 'wiped,' the maker's mark has also been either partly or fully eradicated. I see no evidence that this piece has been through such a 'cleansing process' since the runner marks on the obverse appear to be basically the same on the reverse...at least from this set of pix. And if this piece, or parts of it, came to life in the form of a Röhm Honor Dagger, the reverse lower crossgurard would have included an SS District mark...which this piece doesn't. The ebony grip has seen quite a hard life, with chips in several places, and it is hard to really tell how closely the fit to the crossguards were mated. The eagle has seen much wear and has lost its silver coating, exposing the base metal underneath. And the absence of a scabbard, IMO, renders this piece as pretty much an orphan, since anyone purchasing this dagger will probably want to replace the scabbard with another one...which will probably not fit like the original...and thus further increase suspicion that this is a 'parts dagger' -- which, in that case, it truly would be.

In the end, if you are considering purchasing this piece, I hope you will consider the points above. With best wishes,

Br. James

Hi James and Belgrano,

I remember you, some M-36 daggers produceds after 1937 was issueds without MM or RZM markings on it's blade. I'm not expert to affirm this blade and grip are authentic ones. But seems to me these plateds crossguards without SS District markings and a cooper metal based eagle are compatibles with the M-36 periode daggers without markings on it's blades.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

[busterz111]

Ricardo is correct it is a standard issue ss officers dagger m36 without scabbard.its a textbook piece.grip shrinking and chipping is ebony and the coloring of the eagle and swaztica appears to be a heavy nicotine coating or might have been varnished or shellacked or also as ricardo stated they are copper based which was easier to plate.

I am not sure how a rohm dagger was brought up as this isnt the same bird, much later than rohm.

[R.R.]

Ricardo is correct it is a standard issue ss officers dagger m36 without scabbard.its a textbook piece.grip shrinking and chipping is ebony and the coloring of the eagle and swaztica appears to be a heavy nicotine coating or might have been varnished or shellacked or also as ricardo stated they are copper based which was easier to plate.

I am not sure how a rohm dagger was brought up as this isnt the same bird, much later than rohm.

I agree, it's not a Rohm dagger. But a after 1937 produced dagger with similar materials used in SA later ones. For me it's a M36 without it's chained scabbard and with a correct factory issued unmarked blade.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

[Skyline Drive]

This may be an M36 dagger, but there were a few M33's produced without any markings on the blade.

The one thing that makes me think this may be an M33 is the grip. It is almost certainly ebony, based upon the surface appearance and the way in which it has fractured. Real ebony grips are actually rare, as most were dyed wood of other species. The only real ebony grips I have seen were all on M33's. I have never seen an M36 with a real ebony grip. If someone has one please post it for us to see.

[Barry Brown]

This may be an M36 dagger, but there were a few M33's produced without any markings on the blade.

The one thing that makes me think this may be an M33 is the grip. It is almost certainly ebony, based upon the surface appearance and the way in which it has fractured. Real ebony grips are actually rare, as most were dyed wood of other species. The only real ebony grips I have seen were all on M33's. I have never seen an M36 with a real ebony grip. If someone has one please post it for us to see.

I have posted this M36 on an earlier thread. It is earliest vintage of this model and I believe the grip to be ebony.

[Barry Brown]

Grip detail. There is a deep chip missing under the runes insignia (concealed by the portepee), it is ebony through and through, imo.

[Skyline Drive]

Sorry to disagree with you Barry, but based upon your photos I doubt that your dagger has an ebony grip.

Real ebony is smooth and shiny. It also does not dull with age. I've got an M36 that looks just like yours, including the grip... but it's not ebony.

[Rheingold]

This may be an M36 dagger, but there were a few M33's produced without any markings on the blade.

I agree with you!I also own an M33 w/o TM and its all early nickel silver.
Regards,

[Barry Brown]

Sorry to disagree with you Barry, but based upon your photos I doubt that your dagger has an ebony grip.

Real ebony is smooth and shiny. It also does not dull with age. I've got an M36 that looks just like yours, including the grip... but it's not ebony.

Thanks Skyline, I stand corrected and informed. I have had SS grips as you describe, but not on a M36.