The myth about SA marine daggers .. an attempt to explain

[ivbaust]

Guys, we all know these completely black painted SA daggers, which have a black grip and scabbard. Sometimes such daggers have silver crossguards and scabbard fittings, sometimes gilt. Some say it´s an SA Marine dagger, some question this.

I´ve came across this period book and it may help the collecting community to shed some light into this chapter of SA daggers ... or it will initiate another lively discussion

The book is the well known "Organisationsbuch der NSDAP", which was to that time not officially available for sale in book stores, but was assigned to the party offices.

I have here the 5th edition from 1938.

[ivbaust]

After reading through the chapters SA and NSKK I´m coming to this personal conclusion:

• SA daggers = brown grip & scabbard, silver crossguards & scabbard fittings

• SA Marine daggers = same as SA = brown grip & scabbard, silver crossguards & scabbard fittings

• NSKK daggers = brown grip, black scabbard, silver crossguards & scabbard fittings

• NSKK Kraftbootstandarte ("Power Boat" Standarte) = brown grip, black scabbard, gilt crossguards & fittings

According to this book all SA and NSKK units (regular, Marine or Kraftbootstandarte) had daggers with a brown grip!

SA and NSKK differentiated themselves by the color of the scabbard.

SA Marine and NSKK Kraftbootstandarte differentiated additionally by silver or gilt fittings.

And what about those completely black painted daggers? Well, there´s nothing mentioned in this book. My personal guess is, that these daggers (with silver crossguards & scabbard fittings) are simple NSKK daggers, where the owner misunderstood the order to paint the dagger black. Instead of the scabbard only, he painted as well the grip erroneously. The completely black ones with gilt crossguards and scabbard fittings belong to the Kraftootstandarte. Just a guess, but it would make sense to me!

[ivbaust]

SA daggers = brown grip & scabbard, silver crossguards & scabbard fittings

[ivbaust]

Another close up of a SA dagger (brown grip & scabbard, silver crossguards & scabbard fittings)

[ivbaust]

Photos from the book showing SA Marine daggers. It shows clearly the same dagger like the regular SA had. Brown grip & scabbard with silver crossguards & scabbard fittings.

[ivbaust]

Another close up of a SA Marine dagger with brown grip and scabbard, silver corssguards and scabbard fittings.

[ivbaust]

Direct comparison of SA and SA marine dagger. No visible differences!

[ivbaust]

NSKK daggers = brown grip, black scabbard, silver crossguards & scabbard fittings

[ivbaust]

NSKK Kraftbootstandarte ("Power Boat" Standarte) = brown grip, black scabbard, gilt crossguards & fittings

[ivbaust]

Side-by-side comparison regular NSKK dagger and dagger of the NSKK Kraftbootstandarte. Same daggers (brown grip, black scabbard), just different colored crossguards and scabbard fittings (NSKK silver vs. NSKK Kraftbootstandarte gilt).

[ivbaust]

Has anybody earlier editions of this book (1st - 4th)? Can anybody confirm this observation? Looking forward to hearing your comments & opinions!

[ivbaust]

Nearly forgot to show this pic. In the text of the book it´s clearly mentioned under #8 that the NSKK Kraftbooteinheiten have gilt metal fittings.

"8. Dolch: Der NSKK-Dolch wird bei den Kraftbooteinheiten mit gelbem Metall-Beschläge am Doppelgehänge getragen"

"8. Dagger: The NSKK-dagger is worn in the Power Boat Units with yellow metal fittings at a double hanger"

[Mac 66]

ivbaust,

This is a very interesting origional book which clearly shows the differences in there daggers from SA , NSKK, NSKK Kraftbootstandarte imo.


Thanks for showing, clears up a few myths



Regards Mac 66.

[Ron Weinand]

The Ord book is the 1938 edition. The daggers in question come from the 1934 period when no standards were yet in place.
I have found 3 "Marine SAs" directly from US veterans that were all painted black during the period.
As with any origanization, much transistion occurred. Just from the different hangers used in the 33-34 period, strange things happened prior to the RZM controls.

[Barry Brown]

I believe the 1936 edition of the NSDAP Org. Buch shows the SA Marine dagger as black with silver fittings. Possibly a printer's error corrected for all later editions? However, over the years I have seen several untouched SA daggers with period black grips and scabbards. Maybe, as Ivybaust says, due to a local order or a misunderstanding, because the only early SA Marine dirk I have had was brown/silver but marked on crossguard and scabbard fitting to a SA Marine Brigade and with a member's serial#. I had this dagger about 40 years back and unfortunately can't put my hand on a picture.