Deutsches Jungvolk knife - real or fantasy?

[Mac 66]

Hey Bob,


These so called DJ knifes are a different matter from a die flawed S&L RK award imo


I see a lot of dealers are not selling them DJs now as they have learned the knifes are just post war made, TW will sell them till he retires



Best Mac 66

[BobI]

Hello Mac!
Thanks for being friendly, so much more can be learned and worst case, "We can agree to not agree". But, I do see this in the same light. Also, I remember a time when you were totally against the HJ diamonds with the solid red diamonds. I also remember a time when someone bought one directly from a vet, then you believed in them. I would agree this is a trait you see in the majority of fakes but some originals also have these. Will I buy one, no! Just too hard to convince the next guy. I am not a salesman, as a friend said, I am a "take it or leave it type of guy and let the items sell themselves. I do see DJ knives the same way. And again, because of the forum I will not buy or sell them. I think I have one and it just lies buried and will stay there unless consensus changes.
Thanks!
Bob

[Frogprince]

Hey Bob,


These so called DJ knifes are a different matter from a die flawed S&L RK award imo


I see a lot of dealers are not selling them DJs now as they have learned the knifes are just post war made, TW will sell them till he retires



Best Mac 66

For me the “low hanging fruit” in this argument about postwar knives masquerading as TR period, and the dealers that still sell them, are the “Olympic” (BDM/DJ) or whatever you want to call the small aluminum hilted knives (that are now seen in many different configurations). And while I know that generally speaking some (but not necessarily all) dealers are not that competent when it comes to technical matters - I would LOVE to see a COA written by any one of them justifying the postwar junk posted below. FP

[Mac 66]

Hey Bob,


Back then the solid red diamonds i was not 100% sure about until i bought a hj knife with the quality made solid red enamel diamond properly inserted with movement with totally unmessed with rivets & grips then i bought a few more hjs with solid red diamonds for examination & they were unmessed with also then i heard the vet story which added more hope to my thoughts, the hj knifes were all RZM stamped on the blades & there hilts were made from Zinc, not Aluminium hilts like the DJ knifes with no RZM stamped blades, common sense prevails at the end of the day backed up with evidence as we see in this thread on the DJ knife subject.



Best Mac 66.

[Mac 66]

For me the “low hanging fruit” in this argument about postwar knives masquerading as TR period, and the dealers that still sell them, are the “Olympic” (BDM/DJ) or whatever you want to call the small aluminum hilted knives (that are now seen in many different configurations). And while I know that generally speaking some (but not necessarily all) dealers are not that competent when it comes to technical matters - I would LOVE to see a COA written by any one of them justifying the postwar junk posted below. FP

Yes so would i Fred, them knifes are just terrible

BTW i have never ever came across an hj knife with a hilt made from Aluminium, steel & zinc only, DJ Knifes late war produced product ? my butt !!!, some off these dealers think we are all zipped up the back



Cheers Mac 66.

[BobI]

Hey Mac!
Understood, on the Olympic knives I was on the fence for a long time but now totally agree they are post war. On the DJ knives, my hypothesis is these knives were made on the civian market and modified. If you want my reasoning drop me an email.
Thanks!
Bob

[Mac 66]

Hey Mac!
Understood, on the Olympic knives I was on the fence for a long time but now totally agree they are post war. On the DJ knives, my hypothesis is these knives were made on the civian market and modified. If you want my reasoning drop me an email.
Thanks!
Bob

Yup thats what i was thinking, common hunting/scout type knife made for the masses then decades later some dealer types said oh i think we will add a hj diamond & call it a DJ knife & make some bucks !!, question is were they produced in the TR period or post war ?, my guess is post war, 1950s or 1960s ?, why waste Aluminium on these when the Germans needed all that precious metal for there war machine to conquer the world ?



Best Mac 66

[BobI]

Hey Mac!
I have to go but, as Ron and many others have found and just with the other items we mentioned. Too, too many of these have been bought too many times directly from the veteran over the decades. From guys that were not there during the occupation days. So, like I said, I have a couple but I will not sell them nor will I buy more. I am comfortable with them and since it looks like very shortly I will be 90% collector and 10% dealer for fun, I will just enjoy them until perhaps some day we find evidence to satisfy the masses.
Take care my friend!
Bob

[Mac 66]

Hi Bob,


Just say there is a very slight chance of these little knifes were brought back by some vets, were these common little knifes fitted with the hj diamond on the scabbard when brought back or post war messed with by the vet or dealers, maybe it was TWs junky alcoholic dagger repair mans idea ?, why were these little knifes not adorned with the official DJ single rune insignia on the scabbard ?, no RZM stamp, no official documents to prove that they were issued to the young DJ kids, i think you will be waiting till hell freezes over for any evidence to surface to prove there genuine TR DJ knifes



Cheers Mac 66

[Frogprince]

In the process of documenting these fakes there was one example that had an added “RZM” marking that was stamped next to one of holes that were drilled. The drilling of course also making the interior scabbard liner a twisted mess. 4th Reich workmanship at its best!!

And seeing that some of my earlier images seem to have dropped off the server, while I don’t have time at the moment to add them back in. In lieu of that also posted is one of the later generation trademarked/maker marked fakes that are also seen in circulation from the “usual” sources.

PS: I image that are also some owners-dealers out there who are hoping that their very expensive "SS-Champagne decal helmet" fakes are somehow going to be rehabilitated back into anything other than postwar fakes. FP

[BobI]

Hey Mac!
That is what I mean, so many people have bought these directly form the vets "with the diamond" on the scabbard. I have also seen many that did not have it. My suspicion is these were civilian knives that were modified by the store or factory after the knife was made. I say that because if you look at one I feel is original you can tell the knife was completed and then modified. They would grind down the rivet to remove the scabbard spring and then drill and add the emblem and reassbble the scabbard.
It is not one or two people, ask anyone who has done hotel buys or classified adds years ago who bought these.
Just explaining my reasoning and experience. I have not bought or sold one of these in many years now. And again, it looks like I will not be a full time dealer much longer so all I care about is my own collecting interest. I will still have my site and do this for enjoyment since I do love the hobby! Secondly, the vast majority of my social network is through the hobby too!!
Best Wishes,
Bob

[BobI]

I agree Fred, a piece of crap!
Bob

[Mac 66]

Hey Bob,


Thanks for your thoughts & experience on these knifes, its great to read all the facts ect from guys like yourself, i,ll tell you something off topic, you are a great guy to deal with & one off the best in the hobby imo.



Best Wishes Mac 66



@ Fred, that thing is just terrible,


thanks for adding the pix .

[BobI]

Thanks Mac, you have also always been very nice too!
If you ever make a show over here I hope you look me up!
Bob

[Mac 66]

Thanks Mac, you have also always been very nice too!
If you ever make a show over here I hope you look me up!
Bob

Will do Bob


Cheers Mac 66