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**fredswiss** · 07-20-2017, 11:03 AM

Serge, wouldn't post-war export examples be stamped "West Germany"?

**Frogprince** · 07-20-2017, 11:04 AM

Red, I don’t think that there are any in Atwood’s book, but the small knives since the 1970’s made it into print. A topic that I’ve mentioned multiple times are the “Olympic” versions of the knives, that nobody else seems to want to address which use the same basic “chassis” (if it was an automobile) as the so-called “BDM-DJ” knives. Those I think are the most current versions, also recalling an online discussion exchange between RW and HC with the 1980’s as the time when the “Party Day” knife versions made their entrance into the U.S. market. My point here being that the basic knives themselves have been made over a long period of time.

As for much older and possible origins of the knives, after the war there was a large U.S. Army presence occupying a large part of Germany. It had a PX system that sold items to G.I.’s both from the U.S. and that were purchased locally. That’s in addition to the private market items, in a country that was struggling to just feed itself and deal with the effects of the war. The verifiable evidence to date rapidly restricting a possible window for pre-1945 manufacture. Regards, FP

PS: In answer to Serge’s question - has anybody ever seen a “BDM-DJ”, “Party Day”, or “Olympic” small aluminum knife with an export marking? I have not. But only some of the new manufacture “HJ” knives have an export/import marking, many do not. Likewise some legally imported guns don’t always have import markings. How they do it I don’t know.

**Serge M.** · 07-20-2017, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by fredswiss View Post

Serge, wouldn't post-war export examples be stamped "West Germany"?

I never seen 'West Germany' on any bladed weapon, only 'GERMANY', perhaps others have.

**Ron Weinand** · 07-23-2017, 11:43 PM

In the mid 1950s, there was a Military Surplus Store in my home town that had a lot of German Cutlery and all were stamped GERMANY, not West Germany. Most were HJ style knives with a Flure de Lee in a brass diamond in the grip, so I am sure they were using some original HJ stock up at the time. There was also a set of 3 throwing knives in a leather scabbard that were made from SA Dagger blades (the tang was cut off and the back end f the grip was ground into a metal grip and the trademark was PIC.

**Frogprince** · 07-25-2017, 03:28 PM

Where Eickhorn is involved there are some blades where the answer to Serge’s question is technically a yes. But it seems to be a variable that might also depend on the time frame. “W. Germany” is seen on bayonets attributed to Eickhorn pursuant to a contract from Colt for the AR15/M16 rifles. Eickhorn related there is also an Eickhorn squirrel on a wire cutter type of bayonet for the Stoner 63 weapons system that also happens to fit on the AR15/M16 rifles. Both obviously made long after the TR era it suggests that for official/legitimate contracts that Eickhorn was proud of its work and not trying to hide the point of origin. Possibly in the hope of securing additional contracts from the same, or different purchasers.

As for the thread starter topic: Relevant IMO were the operations of the Reichsministerium für Rüstung und Kriegsproduktion and the Reichsministerium für Bewaffnung und Munition that were both created by decrees, but probably too involved for a discussion such as this one. Whereas pictures seem to work as a simplified way of getting a message across - with the one posted below also focused on Eickhorn. Omitting the wood gripped in-between examples from Eickhorn that show a progressive decline in workmanship - at the bottom of the image is a well finished black gripped OEM S. 84/98 by Eickhorn that was manufactured in early 1942. It’s made to standards that if not completely identical, are reasonably close to pre-war examples. Conversely the other one, which is an an OEM S. 84/98 service bayonet with the reddish plastic grips, it was manufactured by Eickhorn in late 1944. Specifically drawing attention to some poorly fitted parts, a lot of rough grinding, a sandblasted before being blued scabbard etc. and of course the reddish Typ 41 grips - as compared to the smooth appearance of the early 1942 bayonet. That in hand with the 1944 bayonet would also be seen to have a not as deep blued finish, that reflects light differently in places because of the crude metal finishing techniques that were used underneath the blueing itself.

PS: I’m still interested in the manufacturing records for the S. 84/98 bayonets from Eickhorn as a source to confirm exact dates for known examples by serial number. And even more interested in the SG42 records, as well as the Behorden (aka “Commercial”) service type bayonets by Eickhorn because they were not serial numbered and that information would be of great benefit to collectors, and those interested in what was happening in Germany during the later years of the Reich. FP

**Frogprince** · 08-01-2017, 10:11 AM

If needed - I also have examples of TR period Solingen production for the other two names that were mentioned in the thread besides Eickhorn: From both WKC (re: TMJ’s book et.al.) and Hörster (re: the fake supposedly “Hörster - 1944” document). Samples from early, mid, late production that can also be compared to the no-maker postwar PX type small aluminum hilted knives.

PS: For the 1944 Eickhorn that was posted to show the maker code and date I photographed the better manufactured side of the bayonet. The other side has unfinished forging die marks, and other evidence underneath the bluing that they were not wasting time to get the bayonet out of the factory. That also included an only partially finished pock marked welding seam on the scabbard. FP

**Frogprince** · 08-24-2017, 06:12 PM

For any current readers of the thread about the no maker postwar PX type of small aluminum hilted knives here are some images that dropped off the server: