Craig Gottlieb-SA Birdshead Dagger

[David Guist]

Hi guys I dont think there is any one on the forum that would love to see the list more than me. Lets just keep it cival and to the facts. I would just like to say As a moderator I am neutral in this and just doing my best to keep the forum and a diffcult thread to the rules.Best regards.

[Jo Rivett]

The first point is that you NEVER obtained the dagger from a “living veteran” at all; you stated to me that you obtained from a man you describer as a “Picker” – some type of general dealer, who occasionally lets you know when he has militaria for sale. Now that is a whole lot different to getting the piece from a “living veteran” – so your first lie is exposed.

Quote below from the owner from an earlier post in this thread.

...I won't rehash the fact that I bought this from the LIVING veteran, who I audio-recorded, ....... but at the end of the day, I had a living veteran with a clear memory of events.

Dear readers, the very fundamentals of what the owner has tried to Force-feed us in the first few posts of his..... (his Provenance, his Recorded, vet story..) is........a fabricated story, a lie, that was intended to add weight to the authenticity of the item.... Why would he need to lie about even the simplest of things like where it came from??

The owners response to me in an earlier post was..

Besides, there is a BIG difference between a "story" and "provenance."

Yes, there is indeed. and i believe this thread will hope to educate you on the differences between the two !

[Jo Rivett]

Back to the beginning of the Birds life

Taking into consideration, that the description of How and where the dagger was found, is Fabricated, i think it only fair to wind the thread back to the start, and look more closely at what the seller is assuming, and try and uncover any more inadequacies.... (god forbid there be any).

A $70,000. item, a big Restoration project, it will surely be accompanied by a series of before and after photographs, right? Oh course it would, after all, the person who skillfully restored it would certainly want a set for promotion and future commissions, and of course the owner would as well....
Do such photographs exist?

[Jeremy92]

Hi all, I bought a Nazi presentation butterknife today from an old man who claimed to be a WW2 Veteran. I believe only 12 were made and awarded to industrialists. I am willing to sell it for $35,000. I have not seen any period pictures of it or period documentation. Though I videotaped my conversation with the "veteran". I feel that this story is all the proof you need.

Disclaimer: The above is not intended to hurt anyones sensitive feelings. Its just satire being used to point out one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen. I am not saying that this dagger is real or fake! Though i feel it that it should be determined before people ask ridiculous prices... Wells thats just my personal opinion and not an attack on anyone.

[David Guist]

Quote below from the owner from an earlier post in this thread.

Dear readers, the very fundamentals of what the owner has tried to Force-feed us in the first few posts of his..... (his Provenance, his Recorded, vet story..) is........a fabricated story, a lie, that was intended to add weight to the authenticity of the item.... Why would he need to lie about even the simplest of things like where it came from??

The owners response to me in an earlier post was..



Yes, there is indeed. and i believe this thread will hope to educate you on the differences between the two !

Please do not use all caps. It is considerd shouting.Thank you.

[Glenn McInnes]

Dear David

With all due respect to yourself as a Moderator, for myself at least, I see here all the quite justified and absolutely necessary rules of the Forum being correctly followed and without any variance or aberration. A closure of this very important and somewhat worrying thread, which has potentially very serious ramifications, will perhaps be seen as some as a blessed relief.

I hope and again with all due respect, that you allow this thread to develop by it providing a platform and vehicle for those who have been asked the most simple, basic and rudimentary questions - to answer.

Regards,

David

I agree,




Thread re-opened and please keep it civil.





Thank you



Glenn

[David Guist]

This thread should remain closed. The forum shoud be about the item. Not the people ivolved with the item.I dont care who owns it. It doesnt matter to me.The collector comunity form would be a more fitting form for that. Best regards.

[Glenn McInnes]

This thread should remain closed.

Why?



Because several collectors are looking for some sort of proof that these actually existed? I am not sure I understand.


For $70K....I want to understand.




Glenn

[David Guist]

Hi I had just started a new thread where the dagger could be discused.Best regards.

[Jo Rivett]

The forum shoud be about the item.

The Pommel has been discussed, let us now move on to the Damast Blade.
• In order to know "if" there was any makers logo (as is seen on the others, albeit different makers) and if there was any inscription/dedication, we need to see before and after photos that would surely accompany a special piece of this caliber, that is being restored.

• Do Before and After pictures exist?

This is surely an innocent, and justified question, that would help give more direction as to where we are going with this Dagger.

[Frogprince]

David,

My apologizes for the dual posting. But I can see where going back and forth might be confusing. And this is just a suggestion - but perhaps the new thread which has just started could be closed instead?

Fred


And my post from the other thread: I knew from the first time I saw it posted on the first thread that the dagger exhibited some bad/sloppy workmanship (having seen better work from high school shop classes). And some additional studying of the images that Frederick J. Stephens provided has only reinforced that opinion. It's really bad.

We know what the asking price is of the silver finished dagger. And Weitze was where the so-called “Danish” NSKK dagger ended up - but does anybody know just how much he is asking for the gold finished DAF/NSBO dagger? FP

[Serge M.]

The Pommel has been discussed, let us now move on to the Damast Blade.

As most senior blade collectors well know when dealing with original damascus blades as this example is purports to be, there is usually the stamping of the damast masters name or initials into the blade tang.

Most every seller of a damascus blade will show a detailed close up of the
tang and any markings on there as this is an area where the discerning eye of the deeper-pocket damascus buyer will zero in on.

Yes, It would be interesting in seeing some tang photos before and after restoration along with any thoughts on the missing Eickhorn logo.


-wagner-

[F. J. Stephens]

WEITZE and the Birdshead

I do not really know what Weitze is charging for the NSBO/DAF "Birdshead" - in fact we are not sure that it is not being sold on consignment on behalf of Mr. Gottlieb. In fact the only thing we are certain of is that it is a "piece junk" - and fortunately this is not a criticism that I can be ostracised for making, as I have been advised by ................ "higher authorities".

Frederick J. Stephens

[Don D.]

I do not really know what Weitze is charging for the NSBO/DAF "Birdshead" - in fact we are not sure that it is not being sold on consignment on behalf of Mr. Gottlieb. In fact the only thing we are certain of is that it is a "piece junk" - and fortunately this is not a criticism that I can be ostracised for making, as I have been advised by ................ "higher authorities".

Frederick J. Stephens

And that comment earned the first infraction. I am not kidding here folks. If you can't keep from making personal attacks I will ensure you lose your access to the forum.

[Ralph P]

Hello all - I ask the membership to discuss about the dagger and only the dagger and keep this thread on track about the dagger. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and you all know the rules of this forum when you all signed up on this forum. So keep this thread on track about the dagger.


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