dagger prices and young collectors?

[Nolan]

Apart from TR stuff I also collect British Victorian Campaign medals, I recall some geezer once stating that he ''could not see how anyone could take pride in owning a prize for bravery or courage that was not won by themselves''

Well the answer is , that without collectors where would these things end up??

Your own thoughts Gents, my most prized of all possessions are a Single Crimea medal to a 17th Lancer casualty and a DCM Crimea group of 4 ( 4th Light Dragoons)both related to the Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava, and yes I am proud to be their caretaker.

[Will29]

It quit being fun 3 years ago at the SOS. I had my usual 4 tables. Two tables of junk and 2 tables of quality. As usual, I sold most of my daggers on Thursday afternoon to dealers. Friday was Ok with members.

On a Saturday mid-morning in 2008 a young man asked me if he could look at a dagger. Sure, why not? He then proceeded to explain loudly he spotted a fake. He was loud enough to draw others. He then gave a lecture to all about dishonest dealers selling fakes. He was talking about me. I was stunned to say the least.

If this particular dagger is a fake then a series of reference books is a fake. Another series of reference books also has problems. The dagger in question is in both, in living color.

In closing, I don't do shows anymore. I don't need some 20+ year old telling me a dagger is a fake after "real" experts put photos of it in their books.

I'd rather throw away everything than be called a cheat.

Sorry, the post by JR in another thread reminded me of the "experts".

[ValhallaMilitaria]

I agree...money and profit seem to drive a large portion of the collecting community....I grew up loving this stuff far more than was healthy for a 'normal' kid of 11 in 1977....it goes back farther than that though for me....I guess maybe I was 8 or so when I became drawn to ww2 items. German collectibles more than anything else.

i did get a few small items over the years but his ike,medals and documents went to the museum at camp toccoa ga. as per his wishes.point being i think there is a tendancy to loose perspective as to what collecting is all about.

[Larry C]

The TR period will be as collectible as any other period in time where there is an interest. 146 years later the American Civil war is still highly collectible, at least mostly within our own age group. There are a few exceptions for those who are younger and do have an interest in these time periods. Picassos and Rembrandts are still collectible for those of that interest, and millions are spent on paintings!!
Right now during this time is the TR Stock Market "Running of the Bulls" as most of the TR items are very affordable due to people panicking and selling their Personal TR stock. Now is the best time to collect and hold on to these items because in time the economy will rebound,,, it always does and by then the door will be closed for the majority of items once affordable.

There still is a Mysticism within the swastika that still attracts many people into this arena of darkness, that commands the beholder ,, of wanting to know more. Not everyone can see this relevance and dismiss it as evil rubbish. Where there is no education and a refusal to learn, then ignorance is born.
Many times most of all collectors out of ignorance have been called "Nazis" insensitive and sick!
We are no more Nazis than those who are collectors of Civil war memorabilia and are called supporters of slavery. Gimme a break!!
Makes me wonder about people who take their deceased pets to the taxidermist,, but I guess its just as strange as collecting this kind of history,, but what do i know,,JMO!!
I am glad to see what younger people are stepping into this period in time because they saw something that caught their eye and found it intriguing.
There is more than just owning a dagger and saying " yea i got one of these" but learning about the history of that item whatever it may be intensifies the desirability and adds a slight coldness, to the real truth of what happened during those times.
History must be taught and passed on.
Those who have an interest were chosen to carry it on and others were not bestowed this provenance.
Fakers and scammers are the greatest evil and a cancerous rot in this hobby which destroys the new collectors interest totally,, and all for a short term gain.
Sadly though ,,deception is not just on the outside of this hobby but also within our own ranks of a small few (NOT ALL) of those we think we trust. We have seen it and it hurts us too.
I am proud and enjoy this hobby immensely regardless of ignorance and I will do my best to pass it on.
78 years later 1933 to present time there still is alot to learn.

[STRADALE]

Siegfried B - Great post.

This thread reminded me yesterday of a paragraph from Wittman's Vol 1. Of course there is some self-interest involved and the below is from 1995 but I thought the part about museum's is interesting & thought perhaps some other's would as well:

[STRADALE]

Couple of pictures I took in 2009 at The Smithsonian National Museum of American History in Washington D.C.

[ValhallaMilitaria]

Another gret post that captures much of my own feeling regarding this hobby.
Eric

The TR period will be as collectible as any other period in time where there is an interest. 146 years later the American Civil war is still highly collectible, at least mostly within our own age group. There are a few exceptions for those who are younger and do have an interest in these time periods. Picassos and Rembrandts are still collectible for those of that interest, and millions are spent on paintings!!
Right now during this time is the TR Stock Market "Running of the Bulls" as most of the TR items are very affordable due to people panicking and selling their Personal TR stock. Now is the best time to collect and hold on to these items because in time the economy will rebound,,, it always does and by then the door will be closed for the majority of items once affordable.

There still is a Mysticism within the swastika that still attracts many people into this arena of darkness, that commands the beholder ,, of wanting to know more. Not everyone can see this relevance and dismiss it as evil rubbish. Where there is no education and a refusal to learn, then ignorance is born.
Many times most of all collectors out of ignorance have been called "Nazis" insensitive and sick!
We are no more Nazis than those who are collectors of Civil war memorabilia and are called supporters of slavery. Gimme a break!!
Makes me wonder about people who take their deceased pets to the taxidermist,, but I guess its just as strange as collecting this kind of history,, but what do i know,,JMO!!
I am glad to see what younger people are stepping into this period in time because they saw something that caught their eye and found it intriguing.
There is more than just owning a dagger and saying " yea i got one of these" but learning about the history of that item whatever it may be intensifies the desirability and adds a slight coldness, to the real truth of what happened during those times.
History must be taught and passed on.
Those who have an interest were chosen to carry it on and others were not bestowed this provenance.
Fakers and scammers are the greatest evil and a cancerous rot in this hobby which destroys the new collectors interest totally,, and all for a short term gain.
Sadly though ,,deception is not just on the outside of this hobby but also within our own ranks of a small few (NOT ALL) of those we think we trust. We have seen it and it hurts us too.
I am proud and enjoy this hobby immensely regardless of ignorance and I will do my best to pass it on.
78 years later 1933 to present time there still is alot to learn.

[andrew13]

I love those museum pic's. In England there has been a tendency to completely forget about ww2 and its relics in the museums. My local (huge) museum has nothing about the wars, only ancient stuff and nature exhibits. Besides the Imperial war museum and a few more there's nothing. Alarmingly my nephew who is 11 said the world wars were not on the curriculum in school, instead history involved learning about other cultures and natural history. Oh yeah, we do have a maritime museum here with a very small display; a flag, jacket, cap and two endorsing stamps. The last government here swept ww2 and it's political history under the carpet. I agree though, there will always be an interest in these items and people happy to be custodians of them. Regards Andy.

[Larry C]

Thanks Eric and Stradale, Im just trying to keep it real, because it is the history that draws us, not because it looks nice. I like the Smithsonian pic of the army dagger looks to be a Damascus blade. hard to tell because of the angle.

and to Will29) I will never envy wanting to be a dealer, thats a hard job to say the least when handling this stuff. The young guy who approached you probably didnt realize that all his name brand clothing was made in sweatshops all around the world along with the car that he drives that its parts were also imported. Not made here in the US thats for sure unlike Third Reich daggers that were ....... "MADE IN GERMANY"!!!! those parts were NOT imported from the outside of the country at all and the NSDAP and RZM made sure of it. the whole process all done in Germany!! Thats real and Authentic!!
Drive a new car off the lot...Automatic depreciation .....Invest in History? .. a nest egg that you can count on.
Dont lose heart because of one person enjoy it while you can,, you were given a trust! Best regards Larry

[addyfie]

Hi guys
Just thought i would give my 2 cents worth.... I would consider myself a young collector at 32, I have only been collecting just over 3 years now and when i first started looking at 3rd reich items i was absolutely shocked at some of the prices that some of the stuff sold for and started off with a HJ knife off ebay that cost me just over £100 and i thought that was alot at the time, if you were to tell me a few years down the line i would spend 4k on a full Rohm dagger i would have probably laughed. Most of my friends seem very intersested in the hobby but the simple fact of the price of the stuff keeps them away, as having to pay morgagaes and cars etc will always come first and there isnt alot of money left to spare at the end of the month, I think the the hobby will carry on but most of the people who have missed the golden years of collecting will continue to miss due to the fact that this stuff is seriously expensive.
On the up side there is stuff coming from collections now that we just wouldnt have seen a few years back there are full rohms coming out now that IMO wouldnt have lasted 2 minutes on a dealers table, so things arent so bad for the average collector like me, i suppose the economy hasnt made much of a differance to my collecting except there are alot nicer peices around now than a few years ago...... Which is good for me .
I was talking about collecting 3rd reich stuff to a friend who is in his early 40s now and he said that when he was in his teens back in the 80s the army had dumped a huge pile of SS helmets easily more than 100!!!at the back of an old factory where he and his punk frieinds used to hang out, he said they used to throw them around and play army with them etc. When i told him how much they are worth now he was kind of shocked to say the least, he couldnt beleive that they could be worth so much. I would love to know what happened to them but the factory was knocked down in the late 80s so they were probably burried along with the rest of the factory. Its a crying shame but these are the kind of stories that keep us younger collectors interested..... Its probably the closest thing to treasure hunting use mere mortals are going to get. You just never know what you are going to stumble accross next

Regards Adam

[rob NL]

It especially hurts when you look at a Wittmann offering from 10 years ago and see the massive difference in SS prices. I just wish I'd started then. Regards Andy.

Andy, that's the same thing I said when I started 20 years ago, but now prices have changed a lot.
In ten years there will be somebody wishing he started collecting when you did also

[rob NL]

Fakers and scammers are the greatest evil and a cancerous rot in this hobby which destroys the new collectors interest totally,, and all for a short term gain.
Sadly though ,,deception is not just on the outside of this hobby but also within our own ranks of a small few (NOT ALL) of those we think we trust. We have seen it and it hurts us too.
I am proud and enjoy this hobby immensely regardless of ignorance and I will do my best to pass it on.
78 years later 1933 to present time there still is alot to learn.

[rob NL]

In a few years time all of the veterans and people that lived the war have al sadly passed away.
What you see is that the stigma from 3th reich stuff is slowly fading .
There will be more auction houses that will sell the items and there will be more interested people in 3th Reich memorabilia.

[STRADALE]

Reading up on some of the posts regarding "Vets, preserving history, keeping it real"-- thought I'd share the below....... My father in law is 87yrs old & now lives with my wife & I. Below is his purple heart. The metal shard wrapped up in the wax paper is one of the pieces of shrapnel that was removed from his body. I won't share his specific story because I haven't asked permission to do so but feel it's ok to at least show these pictures.. The medal isn't worth much in the hobby but some items are beyond "collectible", for me the below will never be for sale. I have quite a few of his WWII items that he gave me including a Japanese officers sword, Japanese Type 44 rifle, prayer flags, etc etc. that will never be sold by me & hopefully when my son has children they will feel the same way.

[J. M. C.]

There is still a healthy fascination with the Third Reich out there. Every show that I do I have 2 or 3 first time buyers in their teens and twentys both male and female. Communication is the key. Take the time to explain the items to them share what you know and soon you see the same look in their eyes that we all have in ours.

You are always going to have the people that want to make WWI EK2 into a necklace (it looked good on her) or the guy that ran the army belt through the loops and used it to hold up his pants!