Dress Bayonet Question

[Wesley's Dad]

What is the significance, if any, of the dress bayonets that are in the style of a standard K98 combat bayonet? That is they lack the eagle head pommel and styled cross guard of the most commonly seen dress bayonets.

Thanks

[afrikasandman]

I believe if they are more like a k98 bayonet they are suppose to be Pioneer dress bayonets. I think that is what you are asking. Matt

[Billy G]

Michael,

Matt's right. Although the name is something of a misnomer, these K98 style dress bayonets are referred to as Pioneer bayonets. There's no period documentation of this model being used specifically by Pioneer units but it's a name that seems to have stuck either due to dealer or collector usage. Whatever their title, they tend to be rather scarce & in recent years, highly sought after.

One note of caution if you're considering buying one. Make sure the plating goes all the way around the crossguard because some have filed down the broken crossguards of standard KS98 bayonets in an attempt to make them look like Pioneer bayonets. It's an easy thing to eyeball & something you'll see more than you'd think if you look at enough bayonets for sale. Especially on Eban. Good luck.

[JohnZ]

Billy is correct. In the Eikckhorn period catalogue for example, there are three KS98 pattern dress bayonets pictured, the standard with quillon (indicated as being in two lengths, the long and the short versions) and two variations of the pommel (pointed and blunt beak) that we now call the 'Pioniere' version.

But, in reality, they were just quillon and pommel variations of the same bayonet.

John

[Wesley's Dad]

Dress Bayonets

Thanks for the information. Does there exist a "blunt beak" with a quillon though?

[Wesley's Dad]

Here is why I ask...

Just got this as part of a nice Vet lot here locally. It is of the "pioneer style" as has been mentioned here. I understand this is more collector jargon than fact thanks to posts here.

Regardless, it is a very clean Paul Weyersberg & Co. with some scabbard paint loss at the ball tip and in the frog edge areas. Leather bumper intact and minimal wear to the chrome finish. There are a couple of small cracks in the grips, but everything is still seated firmly. Probably too firm, hence the stress cracks over the years.

Looking at this one and a few others I have managed to find on the net, I take it Paul Weyersberg and Co. might not have turned out the highest quality specimens. The peen job on the reverse sides of the rivets is not as clean or nice as a comparable piece from say Carl Eickhorn or some others. In addition the hand fit to the grip plates could have stood one more pass before setting them

Anything else worthy of note regarding this particular maker?

[Wesley's Dad]

Maker Mark

Mm

[Billy G]

MIchael,

I think what you're seeing regarding condition of your Weyersberg may be more a result of the products used to make this bayonet later in the NS period & possible use/misuse over time. In my limited experience, early Weyersberg pieces (both DRP marked & firemans' bayonets) show considerable quality. Both pieces, from memory, are super & look like new.

Later in the period, even Eick started slipping in terms of quality of parts as well as the overall product. I'll grant you that Eick produced some of the best dress bayonets out there but even Carl Eickhorn's company was not immune to poorer construction as time went by. BTW, the earlier Weyersberg pieces will usually show the name in an elipse. PS, I just saw you posted the bunch of stuff, really beautiful looking group. Especially the TeNo hangers.

[Wesley's Dad]

Thanks

BillyG,

Yes, later war work was also something that crossed my mind. I have never really studied dress bayonets up until recently. This Bayonet has not seen much use given the overall condition, but has several small part quality nuances that suggest that this is possibly just later war quality strains.

[Wesley's Dad]

more

And yes, the TENO hangers were the real catch. What I did not show was the 1st Infantry Div. (Big Red One) officer's tunic that I also bought... who's lower right pocket was the home to those hangers for many many years. I found them several hours after the deal was done when looking for the tunic's missing rank and branch devices. To be frank, I had a real introspective moment when that happened and chose to reconcile the find with the seller as opposed to reveling in my free TENO hangers . She was pleased I had the integrity to call her back with the news. She deserves it, she was a nice lady and her father in law served in Sicily, Italy, and Normandy to collect these items.

[Billy G]

Very nice Michael, something many buyers would not have done.

[Wesley's Dad]

Very nice Michael, something many buyers would not have done.

Just trying to live by the "Golden Rule" as I develop my own militaria business. The risk was loosing the TeNo hanger all together for a chance to get the hanger honest, above the table and build some rapport for future referrals or purchases. In the end it did pay back nicely. A week elapsed between the time I disclosed the find and when we actually got back together. During that time she returned to her in-laws house to do some more estate liquidation work and dug up the third EK1, this dress bayonet we have been discussing, and the K98 pouch. Had I kept quite and walked, I would have never seen these other things. Plus she gave me some information that makes me thing we are not quite finished yet

[afrikasandman]

its a very nice bayo for sure, I don't have one in my collection but its on the hit list. Seems you made a great score! Congrats on the find. Matt

[JohnZ]

Michael:

To answer the question above before Billy diverted us all over the map

I have never seen a blunt beak with a quillon dress bayonet. Even the Eick catalogue only shows the blunt beak on a Pioniere style bayonet.

John

[dag001]

Quick question to Billy & John regarding the early vs. late aspects of the subject Pionier bayo. I have always understood the Paul Weyersberg logo within an oval (as shown above) to be an early logo, rather than late.
I thought the correct order was:
Paweco (within oval)
Paul Weyersberg (within oval)
Paul Weyersberg (sword within wreath)
Both of you are advanced collectors whose opinion I respect. What are your thoughts?