Untouched Böker SS or something else?

[roydagger]

what is jewlers black? I am not familiar with this and who uses it?

[Sgt. Steiner]

Houston Coates

He is a joke. I used to think that he was a straight shootin dealer with his dagger displays at the MAX. After reading this thread, I could not even stomach looking at his table. Just corrupt to do what he did. I'm glad this thread is not going away. How can they let him in the door at the MAX after this thread??

[cogwheel]

Jewelers black is a clear liquid which turns silver or silver plating black. It is used to create instant patina. I use it from time to time on dagger restorations.

[The Red Baron]

I don't think Coates trying to scam a 22 year old collector for $4k is enough for anyone with any power to care.

[DTS]

He IS the power. (Or one of them, anyway...)

[lakesidetrader]

We the forum are the power with far more influence than one individual.
Almost 30,000 hits on this thread.
In that is the power to influence.

[The Red Baron]

Very true Paul, too bad these types of things didn't exist back when this hobby was younger and Coates was probably scamming even worse! He's already made enough money off of scams to retire I presume.

No doubt though, he is a crook and a criminal. He and others may not see it like that, but fraud is criminally and civilly punishable in the U.S......(saying its original when he knows its restored becuase he did it)

[Frogprince]

So what's new? There are others who do the exact same thing with the difference here being that the one doing it here has been caught, with as they say, ”his hand caught in the cookie jar". Also showing that parts swapping by those who know how to do it can escape detection in spite of the “it can't be done", blah, blah, that some kept on repeating for reasons best known to themselves. FP

[cogwheel]

Frogprince: You are so right. But I find it ironic that a person (HC) who always pontificated against any form of parts changes or replacements did just that. He was the one who thought he would make the rules for dagger collecting but violated them when he thought no one was looking.
Thus, I think that it is the hypocrisy that is at the core of the criticism. We all should know, like you said, those things are done all the time - I have done many myself in the course of restorations.

[queensman1559]

Why not publish a black list of all 'iffy' dealers? They will think twice when their reputations go down the Sh*t hole, and people stop buying from them.

[The Red Baron]

Because literally every dealer would make the list as they have likely either screwed someone or someone feels they did at some point through their career.

[11C]

I understand that Houston Coats is the head of security for the MAX shows.

[The Red Baron]

I understand that Houston Coats is the head of security for the MAX shows.

Yes; what does that tell you about the leading dealers in this hobby, Wittmann and Johnson, who allow him in this position. Wittmann was made aware of this specific situation and retorted "remember this is what Mr. coates does for a living before you decide to act on this." all i could say was WOW.

[BrianK]

Witty, who has many "Wittmannized" daggers.

[Frogprince]

It's also where having the seemingly inexhaustible source of parts comes in from guys back when who were buying them in quantity at what would be ridiculous compared to today’s prices. Sometimes just for the salvageable parts. And I’ve mentioned my experiences before, but at some very large shows before the public was let in (which was before I even owned a dagger) I would see guys playing “mix and match” with daggers and parts spread out in front of them. Not everybody, but enough that it made me know that I had to get some education first from guys who had been around for a while - and were not looking to sell me anything. Some of the things were easy to grasp no brainers like pommel nuts that had been distorted (rounded flats) by over-tightening, while some other things might need some more experience/specialization. And it's not going to happen overnight. Although I have to say that having the Internet has speeded up things IMO because you are going to be exposed to a lot more in a shorter time than just going to shows. Caveat Emptor!! Fred