SS sword. Real or fake?

[German_military]

Hello,
I was offered 2 ss swords, and I like this one most. I don't really collect SS items, but you'd understand that if they're original, I'd make some space in my collection. The seller has in his collection both very nice original items, as crap. That makes it very difficult.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Frank

[German_military]

2

[German_military]

3

[tobau]

Why do you thinks that this is an ss-sword-because of the Portepee?
It's the famous "Prinz Eugen " type from the Eickhorn-Feldmarschallserie.
Is the sword colour in silver?I think this type is in opposite to the other Eickhorn's always in cast aluminium,so the ground metall is silver.
The hanger looks new.
Best.

[German_military]

Hello,
I thought to see the SS eagle and because of the hanger.

What would your discribtion mean? That it is a know replica, or not?

The colour is silver.

Thanks,
Frank

[tobau]

Hello Frank,
no,in my opinion the sword is a real one Eickhorn type "Prinz Eugen" and this type is a sought sword.Usually this sword is gold-plated.Do you see relics from gilding on the handle ?

[SwordFish]

as was stated, the saber is an nr 1765 prinz eugen from the eickhorn field marshal series. The hilt is a zinc alloy. The ss connection with the pe sabers is dubious at best. Its a heer saber first and foremost and should always be purchased as such.

[777]

Original and one of the best looking Heer swords. First thing to do is to remove the unmatching knot. Prinz Eugen sword has NOTHING to do with 7th W-SS division, it's just another fable created probably to enhance the value.
Nevertheless, this model is sought after by collectors, so grab it if you have a chance.

[SwordFish]

The etymology of the nexis between the SS and the PE sabers can be traced back to a single period image in which an SS man is wearing the pattern saber. I believe this is the only period image of this pattern saber being worn by an SS man which has ever surfaced. We can also add to it stories of vet bought PEs which came home with SS knots attached. Add to this the outdated reference material in which the lore is further propogated.

As 777 mentioned, there is absolutely no connection between the PE division and the PE saber. This legend was further purported by those with vested interests in selling these patterns at humped up prices.

Indeed this Heer pattern is sought after by collectors because it's a great looking pattern. Locating this pattern in good shape has become more and more difficult as the years tick by. Because of the sabers base hilt material, finding an example with her gilt intact has becomevery difficult, not to mention the fact that these hilts are susceptible to attac from the zinc pest.

I don't have a copy of the period image I referenced above saved to my PC. If another saber collector does, i'd be most greatful if they could post it.

t

[777]

I agree, SINGLE photo doesn't mean anything. Check the edged weapons section of hannahsreich There is an ARMY dagger (Klaas) belonging to highly decorated Waffen SS (TK Division) Officer H.Speck and photo of the owner in W-SS uniform wearing an ARMY dagger. Does it make a Klaas Army dagger the TOTENKOPF division pattern???
I don't think so

[Billy G]

I agree with everything said thus far. Additionally, an SS knot does not an SS sword make. In fact I believe the notion that these particular knots are wartime production SS knots is speculation at best. I'm not a sword guy by any means but I'll say that's a great looking pattern, especially the langet eagle. But if the sword is being sold as an SS sword, I'm sure the seller is asking the moon & the stars for it. If the asking price is reasonable, I'd agree that you should snap it up.

[tobau]

Original and one of the best looking Heer swords. First thing to do is to remove the unmatching knot. Prinz Eugen sword has NOTHING to do with 7th W-SS division, it's just another fable created probably to enhance the value.
Nevertheless, this model is sought after by collectors, so grab it if you have a chance.

Well said

[German_military]

Thanks all for your help. Unfortunate the seller still thinks that this is an SS sword, so he is asking way too much for it. What a shame.

[Barry Brown]

Swordfish

The image of a W-SS officer wearing what appears to be a Prinz Eugen sabre with SS - officer portepee first appeared in Angolia's first sword book (pub. 1969). Angolia identifies the sword in wear as the Eickhorn PE pattern and speculates that the officers of the W-SS division Prinz Eugen "probably" obtained permission to wear this pattern sabre.

Since the 1969 publication of Angolia's book many subsequent edged weapon references have repeated Angolia's speculative attribution based on this one image and without any further checking.

This image was also included in historian Andrew Mollo's reference, "Uniforms of the SS"- Vol. 6, Waffen SS (pub. 1972). Mollo identifies the officer, and his caption to the image is as follows:

"SS-Ostuf Hempel, 1st Company SS-Wach-Batallion Bohmen-Mahren spring 1941, wearing the old pattern SS sabre with officer's knot".

This helps, perhaps, to lay the SS-Div."Prinz Eugen" association myth to rest. However, although Mollo was viewing a b/w print he assumed the sabre to be silver hilted; his notes on W-SS sidearms refer to "....the army pattern sabre with white metal fittings which although obsolete continued to be worn..".

As for SS-Ostuf Willy Hempel, proud wearer of an Eickhorn "Prinz Eugen" sabre and cause of collector confusion for over 40 years, he also served with the 13 Div. SS "Ha" in 1944. I have not been able to trace Willy Hempel to service with the SS-"PE" div.

Barry Brown

[SwordFish]

Barry, I concur and am familiar it began with johns book. never have seen the image as I don't, and probably won't ver own this piece of early literature. All this said, I still think were gonna' continue seeing some people attempting to peddle them as such.....probably because at the time they bought the piece, they bought it as an ss piece and got screwed on price..or,the seller is just gready. Either way, it ain't never gonna be an ss piece no matter hard someone wishes. "Click your heels together and say out loud- I wish it were ss, I wish it were ss, I wish it were ss"- that won't even work for Dorothy.

I wasn't aware of its appearance in other literature. Good in-depth explanation Bary. Good information.

Tommy Gun