Why are 1933 SS Daggers still in existence?

[RommelPlatz]

I have been wondering about this for the longest time.

Given the strictness of German policy and especially the SS, why do we find so many 1933 SS daggers around with the non chain scabbards?

I would expect that 95% of the daggers that are now on sale would be with the 1936 chain scabbard since SS men were to replace their scabbards based on Himmler's order. Sorry if my facts may be wrong but if someone can provide additional information on this topic that will be much appreciated.


Khai
"New" (3 yrs) and very enthusiastic collector.

[Frogprince]

The short, short, answer is that both daggers could only be purchased from the SS. They were purchased only as compete units (no scabbards for sale separately). And the M 1936 was a noticeably higher cost item (no RZM price controls) with additional requirements for purchasers. FP

[RommelPlatz]

Thanks for the information. I have the Wittmann books which said that some SS men elected not to buy a new dagger when the Model 36 was introduced and that they elected to insert their old dagger into the new scabbard. So was it possible back then for the men to just buy the new Model 36 scabbards by itself?

So Mr. Wittmann's information got me wondering that after 1936, non-chained daggers should be decommissioned but yet I see quite a large number of non-chained daggers being owned and offered today. Does it mean that these daggers were from SS men that died or were no longer part of the SS before 1936. Which from my understanding, the daggers were to be returned back to the SS and then reissue as chained daggers. Hence my confustion as to why non-chain daggers exist so much today.

I have the same question regarding why double M35 helmets are still around or survived when the order in 1940 was for the tri-color shields or red swasticka logo to be removed. Do these small double decal helmets represent those soldat that somehow lost their helmets during the first year of battle to the French and British? If such helmets were return back to the wehrmact or SS, it is hard to believe that such decals were not removed as order.

[Frogprince]

I don't have time at the moment to see exactly what he said. While the book has a lot going for it, even TW himself admitted in one portion where he had been wrong for a number of years. And there are some mistakes/bad information, omissions, and some outright faked/altered items in it (which could happen to any author trying to cover as much as he did in the book).

Not everyone was authorized the M 1936. The SS-Kleiderkasse (catalog) lists the daggers for sale as I mentioned (but no scabbards by themselves). As for a “recycling” program, how do you re-manufacture the daggers to get all of the (used parts) to fit? And why don’t we see a listing for:

* Almost new scabbards for sale
* Lightly used scabbards for sale
* Well used scabbards for sale
* Or new (or used) dagger parts

There is quite a bit more, but I think that you get the picture. Regards, FP

[Bob Hritz]

The 1938 SS pricelist offers the Model 33 dagger for RM 7.10, the Model 36 dagger for RM 12.15, and the scabbard with chain hanger for RM 9.50.

Bob Hritz

[Frogprince]

Bob, Can you (or anyone) post that page from the price list? I have one that shows the M 1936 @ 12.15 RM, with some sword parts. But no dagger scabbards separately. Thanks, FP

[RommelPlatz]

Much appreciate the information provided. This helps me tremendously as I am saving to my first SS dagger. Thanks again.

[Stahlhelm]

The 1938 SS pricelist offers the Model 33 dagger for RM 7.10, the Model 36 dagger for RM 12.15, and the scabbard with chain hanger for RM 9.50.

Bob Hritz

Very good information! I had no idea that the scabbards for the chained dagger were sold separately.

Thanks,

Chris

[Bob Hritz]

Very good information! I had no idea that the scabbards for the chained dagger were sold separately.

Thanks,

Chris

That is why you occasionally see original maker marked 1933 daggers inside model 1936 chained scabbards. I have gotten several from veteran buys, but they are never as valuable as those with unmarked blades.

Bob Hritz

[777]

That is why you occasionally see original maker marked 1933 daggers inside model 1936 chained scabbards. I have gotten several from veteran buys, but they are never as valuable as those with unmarked blades.

Bob Hritz

That's true, but what if the maker marked dagger is, let's say Ed.Gembruch or Jacobs(!) or Klittermann&Moog(!)? Rare birds like these add value IMHO, especially if the overall look tells the dagger and the scabbard have been together for last 70 years.

[JoeW]

After the introduction of the M1936, the SS BfBl admonished those who had the M1933 to wear them in the upright leather frog. I would love to see the price list Bob for my files. Makes sense to offer it to those who wanted an upgrade and had the money.

[Frogprince]

Besides the price list itself, any additional information as to what kind of documentation might have been required would also be appreciated. FP