Question on rural police dress bayonet unit markings

[cross3700]

I've been sorting through numerous items my grandfather brought back from the war. My favorite by far is a rural police dress bayonet with frog and NCO portepee. The blade is marked on one side Weyersberg, Kirchbaurm and Cie Soligen (3 line inscription) and a knights head makers marks on the other. The blade is also Waffenampt */k. The the back of the guard and scabbard are both unit marked S. Wpr. II 67.

Based on the research I've done I believe the unit marking is Schutzpolizei, Westpreussen district, 2nd precinct, Issue 67. Is this correct?

Seems odd to me that an American soldier would have a bayonet from West Prussia, which I believe was taken by the Russians. My dad remembers my grandpa telling him about meeting up with the Russians at the Elbe River. He was in the 9th AD 14th Tank Bn. I'm wondering if there could have been some trading of souvenirs. Unfortunately, my grandfather passed away almost 30 years ago when I was eight. So I never had the chance to ask him about the war or any of the items that came back with him.

[Richie B]

Having consulted my copy of Jeff Noll's excellent book on the subject (History Writ in Steel - German Police Markings 1900-1936), I reckon your interpretation of the unit marking is exactly correct.

Noll is of the opinion that the "II" marking relates to the town of Marienwerder which is now in Poland and called Kwidzyn.

We need photos !!!

Regards

Richie

[Billy G]

Your thought about the markings on your Grandfather's bayonet sound like they make be accurate. Pictures would help tremendously besides the fact we'd just like to see it

[JoeW]

Having consulted my copy of Jeff Noll's excellent book on the subject (History Writ in Steel - German Police Markings 1900-1936), I reckon your interpretation of the unit marking is exactly correct.

Noll is of the opinion that the "II" marking relates to the town of Marienwerder which is now in Poland and called Kwidzyn.

We need photos !!!

Regards

Richie

Jeff Noll's expertise is WWI unit markings and has penned two books on the subject.

History Writ in Steel was written by Don Maus.

I am sure you have reasons for concluding that your bayonet was issued to the rural police (Prussian Landjagerei then re-named by the Nazis Gendarmerie), but it is obvious from the markings that it was issued to a unit of the urban police, the Schutzpolizei.

[cross3700]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I assumed it was a rural bayonet was the scabbard and frog are brown. I was under the assumption that brown = rural. I'll post some pictures up when I get a chance, that may make things clearer.

[Richie B]

History Writ in Steel was written by Don Maus

Oops - guilty as charged !

Long day at work

Richie

[gefreiterdreyer]

Question on rural police dress bayonet unit markings

Cross3700,
I seem to have an almost identical Police Dagger as you. I was mystified why mine has Schutzpolzei markings but the frog and scabbard are brown. Mine is marked
S Wpr II and a half sized 9 after the II. Did anyone ever explain to you the conflict of markings with the color?
Dave

[JoeW]

Dave, often black dye on scabbards almost 90 years old have tended to loose their color from wear. That is the only explanation I can offer regarding the scabbard. Is the brown frog mark with 1929 date and maker? If not perhaps it was replaced over the years. The marking are original Prussian Schupo markings ca. 1932.

[gefreiterdreyer]

Joe,
Thanks for your input. It just seemed to me that the "removal" of the black die was so consistent throughout (ie. the obverse would have much less contact than the reverse with other objects, clothing etc). But the degree of removal is even except where the low spots are. As you say a lot can happen in 90 years. Do you think it possible that it could have been "converted" to Gendarmarie use (brown frog)? The frog by the way has no markings at all. Thanks again for your help.
Dave

[JoeW]

The markings were an inventory code for the controlling police authority according to the 1932 Prussian manual. Is the spine of the blade marked with a *k near the cross guard? While the obverse was not subject to rubbing against clothing like the reverse as you note, it was exposed more to the elements like sun, rain and snow.

[gefreiterdreyer]

Good point about the elements. Yes, I was aware of the meaning of the markings. And yes the bayonet does have the *k on the spine. So you suggest the wear of the black color would be the same obverse and reverse even with different conditions.
Thanks again.