Help Please in Identifying My Strange Carl Eickhorn Dagger

[John C. Calhoun]

Hi,

This came from the family of a Armored Division Vet. There were 2 denazified luftwaffe daggers, a British Bayonet, a minty SS chain hanger with it. I only obtained this (although I would have loved to get the SS chain hanger but didn't want to cough up the money). I showed my father and he said he saw one exactly like this without the portapee 50 years ago when he bought his first helmet from a vet. The vet didn't know what it was, but the image stuck in my father's mind. We would both love to know what this is. A dagger with bayonet type saw back blade? I've attempted a little research but didn't come close at all. Is the portapee medical corps?

[wolfeknives]

I believe it is a Imperial German firemans dagger.

[John C. Calhoun]

Aha! Thank you. I believe you are right after google-ing imperial firemans dagger. Is the correct portepee on there? My father said he thought the portepee was medical corps. Perhaps it is regional though? Regardless, it's the one the came on the dagger and it looks like it's been there for quite some time. Google is not being so good to me on the search for portepee identification. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks a bunch,
Dan

[Billy G]

Dan,

Wolfgang is right, your piece is an Imperial Fire Official's dagger with nice sawback blade. These pieces are quite scarce but not that popular with collectors for some reason. They were made by both Eickhorn (as shown) & WK&C & came with hanging options of either hanger loops or a frog lug. Occasionally you can find one with an etched blade.

The knot is something of a conundrum, it may have been on the piece for some time but I do not believe it is associated with the Feuerwehr. I have a number of Feuerwehr sword, dagger & bayonet knots & all have some element of red in them so I'd be surprised if this knot had anything at all to do with the FW.

Very nice looking piece in any event, thanks for sharing it with us.

[John C. Calhoun]

Thanks, Billy G. I've only been collecting for 6 years and every few months I get completely stumped by something. Glad this forum (and the internet in general) exists. I'm pretty confused about the portapee. This is just an interesting bring back in general for the WWII Vet. Wish I had the money for the SS Chain Hanger, but I'll have to settle for this interesting piece for now. The owner said the Chain Hanger was worth $9K and that seems a bit on the high side to me. It was pretty minty, but no knot and not a presentation from H.Himmler or anything. The forum's thoughts on the price? I mean, if I needed to have it I would have coughed up the money, but I'm not huge into daggers so, to me, the price wasn't right. I think Snyder - the forum's favorite - only wants $8,500 for some of the chain hangers he has - so $9K? I'm not sure where she got the number.

[Serge M.]

Thanks, Billy G. I've only been collecting for 6 years and every few months I get completely stumped by something. Glad this forum (and the internet in general) exists. I'm pretty confused about the portapee. This is just an interesting bring back in general for the WWII Vet. Wish I had the money for the SS Chain Hanger, but I'll have to settle for this interesting piece for now. The owner said the Chain Hanger was worth $9K and that seems a bit on the high side to me. It was pretty minty, but no knot and not a presentation from H.Himmler or anything. The forum's thoughts on the price? I mean, if I needed to have it I would have coughed up the money, but I'm not huge into daggers so, to me, the price wasn't right. I think Snyder - the forum's favorite - only wants $8,500 for some of the chain hangers he has - so $9K? I'm not sure where she got the number.

John,
You should keep an eye on e-stand compared to those Big-Ticket dealer sites.
How did this one compare to the one you saw?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=400919

-wagner-

[Saufaenger kid]

Is this really an Imperial piece, I should think that this particular Eickhorn mark would suggest mid to late 1920's and therefore a Weimar piece??

Gary

[Billy G]

Gary,

I should explain myself. You're right about this particular double oval Eick mark which was used later than the Imperial period. I believe this model dagger was used as early as pre Imperial throughout the Imperial period & throughout the Weimar Republic. I'm not sure if I've seen this model with a time specific 3R era mark but I don't think I have thus far.

This style Feuerwehr dagger is not by any means unique however it's obviously very different from the style of the usually seen fire official's dagger that were utilized (with very little differences over the years) by German Fire Departments from the late 1800's throughout the 3R & post 1945. I don't know the reason that there were more than one model simultaneously for essentially the same personnel but there you have it.

Some of the earlier fire official's daggers are virtually identical to their later Weimar & 3R counterparts with the exception of blade length which gradually became shorter as time went by. No doubt this was due to the significant unpopularity with the really long dirks. There also were some pommel differences on a few deluxe models but most standard fire official's daggers will fall into one of the two styles, Eickhorn (with clover quillions) & WK&C/WKC (with spearhead quillions). I have several of these older fire pieces & the blades are more akin to shirt swords albeit with thinner blades. With respect to this particular model fire dagger though, I don't believe there was any significant difference between those produced by Eickhorn & those
produced by WK&C.




John,

Are you saying your seller had an SS chained dagger's chain hanger only or did it include the dagger? That type of price for only a chain hanger is way high for just the chain. Also a suggestion, don't use Snyder's prices or items for comparison to anything. There's a lot of "unusual" items & stories on that site IMHO, 'nuff said. I'm hoping SCHUPO can shed light on the knot's original use.

[John C. Calhoun]

Billy G,

The $9K price was for the dagger and the chain hanger - sorry for not being more clear. It was in very good condition and there were no roman numerals where the region mark usually is.

I used the Snyder's price to illustrate that he usually has some pretty ridiculous prices, so even on the high end, the figure of $9K that the owner generated was above and beyond Snyder's. If you have a figure higher than Snyder's you must be way off base because I'd place site on the very, very high end of dealers as far as price (not reputation - although I don't know much about the site).

A side question regarding Snyder's Treasures - is he based out of Massachusetts? My father told me he used to attend patch meetings in MA and he had seen an individual by the name of ____ Synder who was led out of the patch meeting in handcuffs several times because he was dealing large amounts of fake militaria. My dad said he was a somewhat well-known dealer at the time, but he was an older gentleman and would be in his 80's now. If someone knows more and would like to PM me, that would be great. I left of the first name in case I was wrong about this person.

[wolfeknives]

John, just do a search on Snyder in the community forum, it will tell you evrything you need to know about him.

[Billy G]

John,

$9K for a M36 SS dagger isn't unheard of these days but that's for a minty piece IMHO. I would bet you could get a very nice & collectible chained dagger for thousands less if you look around, my only suggestion would be that you deal with a reputable seller if you look to spend that kind of coin. Fakes abound as do parts pieces. Be careful, get good pictures & ask a lot of questions. Hope this helps.

As far as where Snyder's location, I believe he hails from the Maryland/DC area.