Is This A Prussian Imperial Guard Sword

[brannow]

Hi All,

Just wandering what kind of sword this is. Is it a Prussian Imperial Guard Sword?

Thanks in advance,

Bill Rannow
Mpls, MN

[SwordFish]

Bill,
Definitely a M-89 Prussian "Guardsmans" sword. If the pommel were delliniated with a crown, it would refer to palace guard(I believe). Does the blade have a monogram?

Tom

[brannow]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the reply. There is no monogram on the blade.

[Ron Weinand]

IF the pommel had a crown, it would be from the Colonial period would it not??

[SwordFish]

Not neccessarily.

Ref. Angolia. Illustrated is a Prussian Palace Guard in the '89 conifguration with the crown, deliniating "palace" pommel. Also key is the "guard" star.

T

[brannow]

I am not sure why but the handle nut is loose and there is a gap between the handle and guard of the sword. Is there a way to fix this?

Here is a picture of what I am talking about.

Bill Rannow
Mpls, MN

[Ed Sunday]

Hey Bill,

Their was probably a leather finger loop between the guard and ferrel on this model.

[Frogprince]

Unfortunately I think we may have some problems with that identification. The Garde du Corps was the personal bodyguard of the king of Prussia (and after 1871 the German emperor).

A prestige assignment, the men were much taller than average, and they were also Cuirassier's (heavy cavalry). Wearing special Cuirassier uniforms, with Currasier breastplates, etc.

To me the sword looks like a fairly late possibly somewhat lower quality (like many of them are) Prussian IOD 89 (Infantry Officers Sword Model of 1889) with gold type plating over nickel, over steel. And the later style plastic type grip, with steel wire. In fact if you took away the star, and installed the standard Prussian cipher - it would look like any other (more or less) similar late IOD 89 (IMO).

As a possible matter of interest. Over the years, I’ve seen the “Garde Star” attached to various swords as a replacement. And sometimes as a “new install” with swords completely separate and apart from Prussia. FP

[brannow]

Hi FP,

You might have to rethink this. This sword is from a grouping I bought from the son of a vet last week. The grouping was very eclectic and all original stuff.

Below is a picture of the complete grouping.

Bill Rannow
Mpls, MN

[Frogprince]

Bill, Absolutely no offense intended, but I’m probably not going to be rethinking the matter any time in the near future. I’m also not going to get into the whole “buy the item” not the story thing that is seen with some discussions. (Although over time I’ve been offered chrome plated government issue German and Japanese pistols etc. That the vets themselves swore were chrome plated when they got them. Something that did just not happen except until after the war - and I will let it go at that).

I also think that ‘eclectic’ might be something of an understatement. To me it looks like the veteran may have been something of a militaria collector in earlier times himself.

The fairly late manufacture Infantry Officer’s dress sword is what it is just by looking at it (which is a separate issue by itself). And while ordinarily I might have to go look at some pictures that I have of Garde du Corps Cuirassiers on duty. Just to confirm my recollection that they did not wear Prussian Infantry Officer’s swords.

But I don’t think I really have to do that. That’s because I have a Garde Pioneer’s unit marked issue IOD 89 with the standard Prussian cipher - not a “Garde” star. With both the Pioneers and Infantry Officer’s listed as wearing the same sword. Best Regards, FP

[Arran]

This is a perfectly correct Guard Infantry officer's sword, Wartime era, and has nothing to do with the GdC, who never used this model...

[Frogprince]

That the sword is very late, and not top of the line, and for either a new junior grade officer or (possibly) a senior grade NCO I think is obvious from looking at it. And the emblem would have to have been special ordered if it came from the factory that way.

First question: Without a really close look (which is sometimes virtually impossible to do without removing the emblem), how can you say it is perfectly correct as is, and the emblem has not been replaced?

Second question: Why does a much earlier German Army issue Garde Pioneer IOD 89 have the regular Prussian cipher? FP