Opinions needed on Heer Dress Dagger

[peterwyndavies]

I have recently aquired this dagger which is missing its ferrule. T o my very inexperienced eye it seems as if it might be genuine, but I am not familiar with the maker's mark. I would be very grateful if anyone could advise me if it is genine and if so, who the maker is.
Thanks,
Peter.

[peterwyndavies]

Another view of it.

[peterwyndavies]

A view of the Eagle.

[peterwyndavies]

View of the Pommel.

[peterwyndavies]

A view of the maker's mark.

[SwordFish]

I'm gonna' tell ya', I don't like the scabbard swirl patterns right off the bat, nor the casting of the pommel.

It's not for me. I'd consider returning it if I ended up with it. Hopefully, i'm proven wrong by other members.

Tom

[Billy G]

The maker mark looks to be a variation of the logo for Herbetz & Meurer , Solingen-Grafath. According to Fisher's 5th edition, the company was still in operation as of 2002. Fisher's lists H&M as making SA & HJ daggers although there were plenty of missing tidbits of info there. If real, I would think this to be a rarely seen Heer dagger blade.

As far as the dagger's parts, I agree with Tom, I don't like the swirl pattern on the scabbard & would point out the dagger is missing it's ferrule.

[Degens]

Its a reproduction I am afraid. A picture of the blade tang will confirm it. It will be of the tapered type only much thicker and larger than originals. The grip is also plastic

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Tom Billy and Degens. I am disappointed that it is not genuine. I saw that the liners were held in by a screw at the side and thought that it seemed authentic. I have another dagger and will look at the swirl pattern.
I thought that genuine daggers had handles of a type of plastic.
Peter.

[SwordFish]

Peter,

The period grips the time were made of trolon/celluloid/galaith type materials, which I guess could loosely be construed as early "plastics". At this, i'll demur to a collector who has a better understanding of materials and manufacturing.

I'd also be interested to see what the blade tang looks like. It may even have "Germany" stamped into it...not sure though.

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Swordfish,
The handle has suffered some slight damage as is sometimes seen on original handles, in this case a few small cracks. I have a picture already loaded onto the computer that seems to indicate cross graining on the blade, and will post it with this reply. Of course what I think is cross grain and what it actually is might be a little different.
I will take pictures of the tang and damage on the handle tonight, and post them.
Thanks,
Peter.

[peterwyndavies]

Picture of cracked handle.

[peterwyndavies]

The marks on the handle in the previous photograph may look like scratches, but the are small cracks.
I attach a picture of the tang, which is probably what you described Degens.
Peter.

[SwordFish]

Peter,
That confirms the assertions made about the tang.

It looks like the entire piece is a post war fabrication. I still advise you to seek a refund on the piece.

T

[wolfeknives]

This is a rather nice early spanish made copy. The fittings are actually silver plated. The handle is cast plastic, usually a "mustard" color. Original (solid) grips were generally made in one of several plasics, but not cast. They were carved using a machine. The machining marks are evident as small "chatter" marks in the bottom of the grooves on many grips.
Most of these reproductions carry the Horster mark. There is no hope of this one being original.
Wolfgang