NSKK HUNLEIN Dagger

[busterz111]

I would like to open this topic on this Forum as a few of us Former GDC members cannot comment on the Procedings on the GDC.If this is NOT OK with the Mods then I respectfully will have it Pulled.



That being said.....did anyone here go to the Discussion with Fred Stephens and what was your overall Viewpoint Pro or con.

[Serge M.]

Yes, I was there.
There was three items that had happened that didn't help the Huhnlein discussion.

1. The "view projector" did not operate. So that didn't help anyone.

2. The Vet's son had seen the dagger for the 1st time in, if I'm correct, 1963.
The Vet's son said his father never talked about the war so there was no
more "Hand down" vet provenance.

3. The Main Organizer of the event started the evening with a painfully boring
"Hobby Facts" of values of artifacts from 1984 to 2009 that lasted about
40 minutes. That put me to sleep (literally) along with many others.

By the time it came to discussing the Main Event....some had already left and the rest wanted to but stuck it out.

There was NO decision on it's originality IMO. Those who believed in it still did
and those that didn't still don't.

The see what's it's all about one has to read the lively 15 pages on the "Huhnlein Honor Dagger" now on German Daggers.Com


Regards,
-wagner-

[Niblet]

Its getting downright nasty over there,,,I'm kind of surprised 'ole dave H
hasnt shut it down,, but he will if Craig gives the word,,right now the heavy hitters,, such as Gailen david,Houston, and weinand are beatting up on anyone with a different opinion than theres,,,

Basicly what they are saying, is, you are a complete idiot if you dont agree with us! and have your own opinion,,,,,they are not presenting any facts only boasting about there 'experience" and how many "vet acquired" items they have each found,and a direct quote from Houston,,'where would you guys be if it wasnt for old timers and the refrence books!", blah blah blah,,,(we would probably be better off houston)

I tell you what,,if I had the money to buy this dagger I think I would need just a little more convincing than a row of
bobbleheads saying 'its real,,its real just believe us!

I would like to see someone return this dagger for a refund,,!
Its actually a shame guys with there knowledge are perverting it for $$$$

[Mark C. Yerger]

20,000 hits on a topic a handful of people could buy if they wanted to

All the GDC thread did was taint the item(s) with doubt, etc

These days, my faith in a dealer having any goal but profit is about zero, not speaking of any in particular on this item.

And some of the "experts" are obviously considerably less than that from past "judgments" of various types.

For the $ (unknown what not number the NSKK is being sold for) I'd buy SA honor daggers, chained and not chained. And probably still have change for one of today's nuts overpriced plain SS daggers.

[Larry Lipps]

I don't know anything about the dagger or the GDC thread so I've no coment on the dagger itself. I do however have a lot of confidence in Ron and Gailen's abilities with daggers. So my question is do you think they're lying simply because they don't agree with you, or do you have some basis in fact.

[busterz111]

Gentlemen

Thanks for the replies.I know its on GDC as I read it everyday BUT I cannot comment as I have ben booted off a while back.I find it funny that the Old Guard is Defending craig,namely Gailen and he admits to not even attending the Discussion.Everyone but Fred Stephens had Interests in those daggers and he gets killed for speaking up.Lots of twisted comments from dealers on there espicially when they say things like "you have no experiance with vet Buys so how would you know" Commenst like that are disturbing.

Another one was the discussion of parts pieces from the 50's....apparently some of the dealers are so full of themselves they assume since they were in solingen in the 60's they bought EVERYTHING...thats a bit self centered as I am sure the Germans had a few stockpiles,the crap went to the pompass LTC and the other pile went to their own Production and Collectors in Europe.

All I really know is when Craig is on the ropes gailen comes out of his Hole to defend him.

Also the provenance is the most Ridiculos thing I have ever heard EVER.But as he stated at the 1st line of that thread the debate is OVER....yes Craig you have proved they were built postwar and Your a Dope....Congrats on that.

TOM CARROLL
(craig does not like me to use my Busterz name)
Semper Fi MAC

[Niblet]

Tom,,I support your comments here,,,Larry,,I believe that Gailen and Ron
do know there daggers,,,but what they do and how they choose to use that info are 2 different things.

they circle the wagon's because a blow or defeat to one is a blow to all they all have a lot of $$$ to loose here,,the stakes are high

[zander]

IMO the "againsts " have raised a lot of very sound arguments about these daggers , the "fors " apart from a few who have tried to keep the debate going have just tried to insult their way through , i think a lot of people will now think these are period parts ,post war constructed,

[Guymauve]

Hi
I didn't was there but I have read every day on GDC forum : "...debate is over".
Just a question : where can I see good pics of this famous NSKK-Brigadeführer Grüner's dagger?
Cheers

[busterz111]

Well since another Thread in this Vein was closed I would ask that this one be closed also.Only thing we can do as collectors is when someone asks or opinions of certain Dealers we just be VERY honest with them....Sometimes the truth hurts

[WARLORD]

I haveto say I am not a dagger man. However when one sees fake silver marks on the chain of such a piece, one has to ask the question how were the chains placed on the dagger?

This question has not been answered by the accepted Experts.

[Serge M.]

Warlord,

The reply to that question in the past by one of the "Masters of the Universe" with 50 years + in the hobby has been "They have been found like this in the woodwork and gotten for nothing."
Does that mean that the item was genuine pre- 1945...of course not. What I gather from the statement is "Huhnleins" have for a long time been bought in the "sticks" for no money then there was no financial angle for the fakers to make money on their fraudulent concoction. So hence it must be authentic.

The problem I see is that none of the "Masters" can point to another single case of this clear violation of manufacture and product quality in ANY other artifact during the 3rd Reich.

The center chain cartouche with it's Cast-In fake Gahr Marks with the half moon and the crown (The crown design is also not a familiar design I had seen on any silver proofed item in my over 40 + years in the hobby ), along with the center scabbard mount look like the quality of some kid who made it in a High School Metal Shop! That's what it looks like.
For anyone who has eyes you can clearly tell - 3 feet away - that the center scabbard mount Quality and Design is not even close to it's companion parts of the lower and upper scabbard fittings. WHY!?
Also WHY have not any of the owners actually done a simple silver test and seen if indeed the chain is actually .800 proof silver?

There is more, however the bottom line is the Burden of Proof is with the Seller of this item. They have not IMO come up with compelling explaination for the questions above nor will they probably ever.

Now would I have a Huhnlein dagger in my collection? YES!
If I could get it "Out of the Woods for Nothing".


Regards,

-wagner-

Warlord,
The center chain cartouche with it's Cast-In fake Gahr Marks with the half moon and the crown
-wagner-

Can someone post a photo showing these markings? I didn't see one on GDC (but lots of stuff to wade thru on that thread...).
Thanks,
Fred

[Serge M.]

Here you go Fred.
This is the rear of the center connecting cartouche on some of the Huhnlein chain varients.

-wagner-

[mustang]

well i asked a question on gdc about the silver chains but no response , ok the hallmarks should be stamped not cast , but beside this .....would 800 silver be a suitable material to make such chains from , anybody whose had 800 silver neckchains knows theyre easily snapped . now look at those flimsy connecting rings between links , look at the links themselves where the connecting rings attatch and how thin they are . now add a dagger to this that swings about causing wear and tear , a dagger that gets caught on stuff and chains pulled on , i doubt if those chains would last very long if real 800 silver , so i doubt if any dagger manufacturer would have used these . ok silver fittings to daggers and swords , or big chunks chains ,but these i think would snap or wear down and fall apart in no time ...and i think manufacturers would know this .