how rare is rare?

[Godts]

As a new collector I try to do as much reading as I can, mostly on the net because I don't own any books about the topic yet, but last few days a question keeps running thru my mind...
Since I own a 1st luft I did some research about the different types etc and on those sites where they also rate the 'availability' of this type of dagger in general most of the time it's rated 'rare'.
Now I go to a small fair every month in Wavre (Belgium) and there I can at least buy 3-4 real 1st Luft's, and sadly a dozen more fake .
If I check sites from respected collectors mostly there are between 2-5 or even more 1st Luft's offered, some expensive indeed but also some at 'affordable' prices.
This doesn't sound as 'rare' to me, my concept of rare is a dagger like a full Röhm, daggers with etched blades where they normally have plain blades, damascus blades etc.
Some enlightenment plz...

Best,
Godts

[GaryMJ]

I agree with you, a 1st Luft would be rather classified as common IMO. In fact to find this model in excellent condition is also not that uncommon, especially the late aluminium variety. I think the only "rare" definition may relate to a scarce maker or perhaps being unit or arsenal stamped.

One of my favourite daggers given its chained, leather finished and larger than other types, probably a little undervalued, they would probably be worth a lot more if they were genuinely a rare model dagger.

Red

[Josh B.]

Sounds like the websites you have been visiting have been hyping the scarcity of 1st lufts a bit. These are rated as common amongst most serious collectors. If you are just starting out, and need a very general guide to rarity and pattern types (but alas very little detail), find a cheap used copy of Tom Johnson's Vol.1 "Collecting the edged weapons of the thrid reich". I believe the scarcity ratings he gives each pattern of dagger in that book are spot on.

Don't buy into dealer hype!

Josh

[lakesidetrader]

You make an excellent observation. "Rare" is an oft overused term in the hobby.
You have to consider what they guy is trying to communicate.
-Types of daggers can be considered rare for example. Navy daggers are common but Railway daggers are fairly rare.
-Often times people try to communicate that within a type there are makers which are rare. For example WKC Navy daggers are common but Pack Navy daggers are rare.

Ok I say all this and now you have to consider that unlike today the German edged weopon industy of the early 30's was a "cottage" industry with literally hundreds of small "Ma and Pa shops". In the case of SA daggers, orders were put out to several hundred shops each being granted a tiny fraction of the requirement. Hitler used this strategy as a sort of stimulus plan if you like. This is awesome for collectors of today as the different makers had wee variations and it's fun to collect by maker mark.
When you consider SA's, there are more rare makers than common. I know this sounds strange but I hope I can make sense of it. Consider that Eickhorn, the most common maker made say 50,000 SA's. The rarer Ma and Pa shops churned out 300,000 or 400,000+ at a rate a few hundred or so from each shop. When encountering an SA you are far more likely to NOT get an Eickhorn.
Suggest you buy a couple books, I know they are expensive but they are well worth the investment.
Finally welcome to the hobby, we wish you every success in your collecting.
This is a great forum, there are many knowledgeable people who are very helpful here.

[Wim Vangossum]

Rare (or exotic) and incredible expensive:

An SA- Feldhernnhalle dagger
A Kriegsmarine Honour dagger
A chained SA Hounor dagger
A SS-honour dagger.

To name a few...


Rare and at least cheaper as a new car:

A chained SS dagger
A HJ Führer dagger
A chained NSKK dagger.

To name a few...


Regards, Theo
(Wim Vangossum