Long Double Etched Bayonet

[Billy G]

Kai,

Are there any cracks/repairs in the grip plates? It looks like there is & also that the rivets are asymmetrical which would be a definite red flag on an extra cost private purchase piece. Try to also get a good close up of both the ovverse & reverse rivet heads.

A suggestion, until you can prove that the piece is likely period, try to stay objective on it's attributes. That way, your head & your heart are not in conflict over whether to buy a piece or not. We've all experienced this, just 2 weeks ago I returned a double etched Pionier bayonet that I got for a very reasonable sum. It might have been period etched but there were some inconsistencies on the reverse grip plate. Because of this, I'd never have been able to sell the piece without questions & headaches so back it went.

[rkhunter]

Hello:

If you have Wayne Techets book German Etched Dress bayonets you will find this etch on page 236. Wanye warns that the Jager-Regiment 99 double etch was often used on post war or reproduction bayonets. Look for broken template lines and incomplete motif borders.

Richard

Hi, well I just had a look at my bayonet and it does not look good at all unfortunately! The things you pointed out Richard to me are present on the etched panels! Can anyone please give me pointers on how to take decent pictures of edged weapons, especially the blades? I have a nightmare of a time with edged weapons, but im o.k. with medals etc?? Might be my camera or something!! Thanks for you help everyone on this, and if I can master the pic side of things I will post up some better pictures of the etched panels for you all to have a look at!


Kai

[rkhunter]

Kai,

Are there any cracks/repairs in the grip plates? It looks like there is & also that the rivets are asymmetrical which would be a definite red flag on an extra cost private purchase piece. Try to also get a good close up of both the ovverse & reverse rivet heads.

A suggestion, until you can prove that the piece is likely period, try to stay objective on it's attributes. That way, your head & your heart are not in conflict over whether to buy a piece or not. We've all experienced this, just 2 weeks ago I returned a double etched Pionier bayonet that I got for a very reasonable sum. It might have been period etched but there were some inconsistencies on the reverse grip plate. Because of this, I'd never have been able to sell the piece without questions & headaches so back it went.

Hi Billy, it looks like scuff marks and a couple of knock marks on the grip plates. It looks like my bayo is a standard type with what your saying, and the etched panels are spurious for sure! I am with you all the way with what you are saying about staying objective on a piece before proof of its authenticity, I get carried away sometimes myself!! But, I never paid too much for this bayonet so I have been lucky this time around! I dont know if its worth taking pics of the rivets anymore!!


Kai

[Billy G]

Kai,

I've never been able to take really good pictures of etched bayonet blades so I'm not a great person to ask. What I would suggest though is to try & use natural light, outside if possible. Use a macro setting on your camera to highlight the details when up close. Also, hold the pommel & try to manipulate the bayonet to get a shot of the details without the glare. Hope this helps.

[rkhunter]

Hi Billy, thanks for the tips! I will give it a bash when I have time to see what I can achieve!



Kai

[SwordFish]

A quick tip on capturing etches... I use:

A white background, natural light, not direct sunlight though. A camera on macro, flash off, using a tripod.

That should capture an etch quite well. Takes time and practice, but with that practice, you'll get it down. Trial and error. What works and what doesn't.

This photo is not an etched bayo, but if it were, the etch would show just fine. This photo was taken using the meathod described above. I've photo'd etched sabers this way and they always turn out very well.

Not an etched bayo guy, but.....me...i'd probably avoid this one.

[rkhunter]

Hi Swordfish, That is one super clear photo you took there! Thanks also for the picture taking tips! I will put this info to good use and I will see what results I can get?


Kai

[SwordFish]

Hi Kai-

Hope all is well on your end.

I've played..and played...and played...and played...and played...and played...you get the idea. Until I found what works for what. I've found that photographing KM badges is monumentally different the photoing gilted sabers, and super shiny nickel plated EM Heer sabers. It really just takes the basic tools, like 2 different sized tripods, and a camera that has normal, close, and macro functions. My camera is about 6 years old, and still does what it needs to without problem. Not a great camera, but it works, and works well once I figured out the little bugs. It just takes alot of playing around with, and also determining what you want the photos to do. I can photo a Heer sabers gilted hilt to really highlite the gilt, or a photo to illustrate the finer detail, and minimizing the hilts gilting. Trick photography so-to-speak.

Thanks for the kudos on the bayo. It's a Luft bayo with Luft frog and Flak unit marked knot.

Take care and good collecting,
Tom

[rkhunter]

Hi Tom, thanks again for the tips! Your bayo is very nice, I see that your a saber man! What is the best way to take a full shot of one? I have one and would like to take some great pictures of it at some stage, but im sure this is a totally different ball game from the daggers,bayos etc? I dont have a tripod at the moment so looks like I will have to invest in one!

Kai

[SwordFish]

Hi Kai-

I own 2 tripods. A tiny one that extends up to about 12". The larger one extends from about 12" to 4-5 feet up.

Photoing sabers is a bit tricky. For good, quality, images used for both documentation and detail photos, without using the photography to embellish the sabers true appearance, I use the same method.

Natural sunlight, non-direct. I'll open the door to my room, remove the curtain, so natural ambient light comes in. However the light cannot be direct sunlight. I use a white, soft background, and set the camera on the tripod. I use medium resolution, and photograph the piece from about 36" off the ground. No flash, and a mid-macro setting. This should produce the truest photograph of the saber.

When I want a photo which really hi-lites the gold colored gilting on the sabers hilt, I'll use a room which had filtered, natural sunlight, however a bit darker than the environment I used for the previous meathod. I'll use a very dark, black background, again using the tripod, this time at about 24" from the ground. I set the camera on the same mid-macro function, but use the flash. I'll typically supplement the filtered natural light with a lamp with lampshade. No direct bulb light. I angle the camera as to avoid the flash creating back flash off the shiny nickel plated blade. Typically this meathod will create deep, rich colors, and really shows off the gold coloring.

The tripods I picked up at Walmart. I spent $20 on the big one, and $9.00 on the small one.

IF you send me an email, I can send you a photo a sabers under each condition. There is a noticeable difference, and like we've discussed, photography can create trickery to our eyes.

My email is:

ww2collecting@hotmail.com

Everyone has a different meathod and many of our members here I would consider experts at photography. JR has incredible photography skills. Some members have photography boxes, and photography lights. I'm not that advanced.

I don't want to further steel or derail the thread so hit me with an email and i'll "shoot" off some examples illustrating the final product using the meathods I briefly described.

Good collecting,
Tom

[rkhunter]

Hi Tom, excellent info..I have sent you an email!


Kai

[Billy G]

Tom,

Very professional looking pic. Thanks for the tips, I can use as much help as I can get.

[SwordFish]

Hi Billy,
No worries my good man. Your photos are pretty darn good usually. As we all know, the whole "photography" things takes trials and error and experimentation. Not all of us were born photographers with a flash bulb sticking out our butts

[Billy G]

So true, except to say my work is generally more error than trial I have to try the white background with some pics of an etched fore bayonet I have, just to see the difference. I've never been able to get really decent pics of it done. It also astounds me how much difference just one well done picture can make in the appreciation of a fine edged weapon, to say nothing about how much it might affect price on a sale.

[SwordFish]

It is amazing to scrutinize how images do influence the sale. But that's one of our human shortcommings. Smoke and mirrors. eBay is probably the finest example of this.

Etches are tough to photograph. Photographing shiny blades in general can be quite difficult because of blackflash. I've found the lighting is actually more critical than is the background. Still, the totalitity of factores influence the final product. Billy, try using the indirect natural light, no flash, preferably at an angle, and I think you'll be amazed how the photo of the etch turns out.

I played with the numbers to ascertain aprox. how much it would have cost me to develope any semblence of photographic skill is I were using 35mm and traditional developing. Well over $800 I figure, simply based on the average cost of developing, and the cost in film...even from Costco. It's all about digital.
t