Not Hitlerjugend but what ???

[DeMil]

Hi all.

I have this knife and it looks like a Hitlerjugend knife, but it has no Hitlerjugend badge on it and no text on the blade or other markings.
Garanteed periode but used by whome ?

Thanks
Derek

[DeMil]

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[DeMil]

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[DeMil]

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[DeMil]

5

[Serge M.]

BDM.

-wagner-

[Frogprince]

Wags,

Not to be confrontational, while it is commonly called a BDM (Bund deutscher Mädel) knife (and some other things). And is discussed in some circles. And described by some dealers selling them as just that. What proof actually exists that it is fact a "BDM" knife?

The amount of actual period data to support that conclusion (the last time I looked) matches that for the Hitler Youth "Marine" knife with the blue diamond.

Zip, Zero, Nada.

Regards, FP

[Serge M.]

Hi Fred.

Proof ? None that I know of. That's just what it was called, as you know.
Who started it? Gee I don't know.
Take the usual suspects I suppose: Jim Atwood, Roger Steele. Colonel Stewart.

What we can't find a photo of a german girl wearing one? Ah shucks...not again!

Best,
-wagner-

[RussellM]

Unfortunately, Wags is only jokingly (I think) perpetuating the myth by referring to this as a BDM or DJ knife. It is simply an un-attributed knife and should be called as such until period evidence proves otherwise. They are great money-spinners with the current title - gee - I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Regards
Russ

[DeMil]

OK guys.

So this is a periode knife, but at the moment the collectors do not know who used these. Correct ?

Derek

[Wim Vangossum]

These knives were also sold in the fifties. I have catalogs picturing these plain models. So IMO it is even not posible to proof of it was made before the war, during the war or after the war. I can't post pictures here but I have pages of this catalogs posted on the WWMF forum.

Regards, Theo

[RussellM]

Derek, there is currently NO evidence whatsoever that this type of knife was used by any Third Reich organisation. There are stories that veterans returned with these, however, they are stories, and the timeframe is very open to postwar occupation timing as well.

Regards
Russ

[Serge M.]

You got me Russ!

Who knows is right. The guy selling it's a BDM (high price) or it could be DJ (still
a high price but not as high as BDM).

I'm not a HJ type expert so to me it's just a post war camp whittle knife.

Regards,
-wagner-

[Frogprince]

These knives were also sold in the fifties. I have catalogs picturing these plain models. So IMO it is even not possible to proof of it was made before the war, during the war or after the war. I can't post pictures here but I have pages of this catalogs posted on the WWMF forum. Theo Cuypers

Theo, can we have a direct link to the images?

Derek, there is currently NO evidence whatsoever that this type of knife was used by any Third Reich organisation. There are stories that veterans returned with these, however, they are stories, and the timeframe is very open to postwar occupation timing as well. RussellM

From what I recall of some past rather lengthy discussions elsewhere I have to agree.


As I suspected Wags was doing some ‘tongue in cheek’ jesting. While Jim Atwood (almost certainly most deservedly) has gotten a lot of bad press for fakes - I don’t know if the “unattributed knives” can be laid directly at his feet. Looking at some of the early books - I think that those honors might go to an individual (or individuals) who followed more or less directly in his footsteps.

Asides from the books, my recollection is that the “unattributed knives” were going by the label “DJ” knives for a long time. Until somebody actually looked more closely at some of the actual period evidence - and “DJ” became unsupportable.

Whereupon almost overnight, somebody sprinkled some “magic dealer pixie dust” on them, and they became “BDM” knives. (Or better yet) I seem to recall some instances of them being referred to as “Jungmädel knives” .

While I think there is a narrow window of time available for the aluminum hilted versions of the knives to have been made in the prewar period. Theo’s comment IMO really hits home. After the war there was no shortage of either aluminum, leftover conventional parts, or a lack of talent or equipment, to make the “unattributed knives” in quantity for commercial sales (or for modification into even rarer examples - at higher prices of course) . FP

[evilmike]

can you show a pic of the snap's on the hanger, usually theres a few common period designs, might give the piece some closure