Early Sa dagger

[Justin P]

Hi

Could some one with good knowlede of Sa Daggers PM me please! and i will email you photos I'm in need of an opnion on a Sa dagger

[Serge M.]

post them here and you will get an opinion from more than one guy. That's the spirit of the forum.

-wagner-

[wh014d4394]

heres the dagger.not mine

[wh014d4394]

as some one been number happy..

[wh014d4394]

...

[wh014d4394]

mm

[wh014d4394]

....

[Skyline Drive]

The engraving on the scabbard fitting may be period, but most that I am aware of have a different style made up of tiny hash marks like this one...

[charlie7]

Dagger looks fine to me. Charlie

[zander]

The Engraving On The Scabbard Band Would Be On The Inside When Worn Is That Correct..

[Justin P]

The Engraving On The Scabbard Band Would Be On The Inside When Worn Is That Correct..

Yes Its on the inside

[Serge M.]

Blade polished.
Scabbard screws removed probably to do work on "engraving".
Engraving looks "fresh".
Numbers on crossguards look bad.
Crossguards look artificially "aged".
Grip fit is poor.

A "humped up" piece IMO.

-wagner-

[Justin P]

Thanks for the replies all

Wags you make some good points there.

Blade polished yes possibly


A screw on the Scabbed is loose! Its 60+ years old I guess it could of been taken apart?

To me the metal on the front of the scabbed has had nicotine removed it looks yellow ish, were the photo on the reverse of scabbed looks clean and shiny. Hung on a wall?

you mention the numbers looking bad on scabbed, In what way?

Poor fit of Grip age?

[Daggerob]

Hello bogthedoguk:

I have to agree with Wagner's assessment on all points.
The hilt and scabbard fittings should have matching materials, patina, and overall age appearance.
This is only the first (and most obvious) of the many red flags (previously mentioned) with this piece.
Here is a link ...

http://www.lakesidetrader.com/sa.html

... to a fine tutorial on SA daggers that will help you to understand what we are talking about.
It is well worth viewing if you are interested in dagger collecting.
I hope that this is helpful.

[Daggerob]

Hello bog:

If you view the tutorial link that I posted for you it will make this process much easier.
I have only been collecting daggers for about five (5) years, so I am still considered to be a beginner.
But, I will try to address your questions as best I can.

Thanks for the replies all

Wags you make some good points there.

"Blade polished yes possibly"

Possibily? This blade has been HEAVILY polished.
The crossgrain is completely gone.
The background burnishing in the motto is shot.
Even some of the Maker's Mark burnishing has been rubbed away.
You can clearly see deep buffing trails leading away from the characters in the Maker's Mark running from right to left.
The blade is the heart of any dagger. That's what we collect, Edged Weapons.
Anything that removes material from the blade such as sharpening, retipping, and yes, Polishing greatly diminishes the value of a dagger.

Pieces that are GENUINELY TR PEROID personalized and/or number stamped tend to bring a higher price from collectors.
Many scoundrels have taken up the practice of adding such embellishments (post peroid) to genuine pieces in a crude attempt to enhance their value in the eyes of inexperienced new collectors.
Some have even gone so far as to add Rohm dedication inscriptions with mixed results.

"A screw on the Scabbed is loose! Its 60+ years old I guess it could of been taken apart?"

Disassembling a dagger (for any reason) reduces it's colectable value.
Wagner thinks it was done to add the (post peroid) engraving.
Engraving, by the way, that Skyline says differs from any peroid style that he is aware of.

"To me the metal on the front of the scabbed has had nicotine removed it looks yellow ish, were the photo on the reverse of scabbed looks clean and shiny. Hung on a wall?"

Cleaning a dagger at all (other than very careful light cleaning of the BLADE ONLY using specific methods, substances, and techniques) is considered by most of the collecting community to be detrimental to the value of the piece. Cleaning some fittings, and not others makes no sense at all. As I stated prevoiusly, all fittings (hilt and scabbard) should have a matching appearance.

"Hung on a wall?"

More likely cleaned during the post peroid engraving process as suggested by Wagner. Or, even worse, from a different dagger entirely, making it a parts dagger as well. (That would also explain the poor grip to crossguard fits)

"you mention the numbers looking bad on scabbed, In what way?"

He said that the numbers on the CROSSGUARD look bad.
Jimmy also posed the question "Has someone been number happy?
Indicating (I believe) that he also had some doubts about their origin.
Authenticly numbered SA crossguards present the characters to the side of the Gau mark.
As on this piece ...

http://www.wwiidaggers.com/25921.htm

... or this one ...

http://www.wwiidaggers.com/26799.htm

Not directly over and through the Gau mark as on the example that you show.

Poor fit of Grip age?

Again, the tutorial shows clear examples of this.
These grips were hand fitted with great care.
(particularly on the early pieces)
Poor grip to crossguard fits are a strong indication of a "Parts Dagger".
The most desirable daggers are those that have all parts original to the piece.
When damaged parts are replaced with good parts from other differently damaged daggers, what you have is a parts dagger.
Parts daggers are considered much less valuable than all original daggers.
Most collectors avoid buying them unless they are ridiculously cheap, and many won't buy them at all.

All of that having been said, please understand.
Many experienced collectors are reluctant to comment on such daggers posted by new collectors for review.
Not wishing to believe the bad news, the new collector will try to defend the piece, often discrediting the responses of those who are trying to help him.
Nobody likes to be the bearer of bad tidings, but anything other than the truth would be a disservice.
Most of us have made bad purchases along the way.
We refer to it as tuition.
Better to do business only with reputable dealers until you learn your way around.
There is a great deal to learn about this hobby.
It takes quite some time to become knowledgeable enough to make purchases on your own.
Good Luck!